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Post by paranoiadragon on Sept 4, 2022 9:14:52 GMT
With the recent Cowabunga Collection, it got me thinking. The SNES and Genesis both got Turtles games, but the PCE didn't. Now we understand the PCE to have sold like hotcakes, I would guess from 87-91 or there abouts. On the otherhand, the Mega Drive some consider a failure. I remember BITD when I was in Jr High, a buddy of mine got a PCE thru a friend of his in Japan. His friend claimed that everybody had a PC Engine, and nobody had a Mega Drive. And he joked that the few that had an MD, used it as a doorstop.
However, quite a few high profile games made their way to the MD. I especially think that it's weird, that the SNES and Genny each for 2 Ninja Turtles games, 1 Contra, Sunset Riders, and at least 1 Sparkster/Rocket Knight game(apparently the MD got 2, which I only recently discovered after all these years.
It makes me wonder, if at the least, some of these 4 properties got some development before being abandoned. I always imagined Konami at least doing a souped up port of the 1st TMNT Arcade game, and perhaps souped up versions of Contra and/or Super C. The reason I say these games, is cuz most of Konami's games on the Turbob are ports with exception to Tokimeki Memorial and Drac X. So it seems likely they would've done ports of at least a Contra and Turtles games.
When doing research, I didn't realize that Konami only made 9 games(10 if you count Battle Juggler), while the MD got 16, and of coarse the SNES got over 40(although, some of these games were only published by Konami). Most articles I read list Konami as a staunch supporter of the Turbob with the likes of Namco, Taito, and I forget who else(I'd argue Telenet, NCS/Masaya & Naxat Soft were, besides Hudson and NEC Avenue). Konami really didn't do all that much though, and they came later in the game compared to those other companies.
Why did Konami come in so late(not to mention Capcom not even being a publisher, but apparently did some developing) and also only produce 9 games, for a system that was as popular as the Turbob, but then support the Genny more even though there was a smaller user base?
I brought it up in an Evercade Discord thread, and one guy who used to work for one of the old gaming mags(I forget, EGM, GamePro, etc.) said it was all about the Western market(which is something I thought maybe was a possibility). He said Konami did better in the Western market, than they did in their own territory.
That's something I'd never heard of before, I guess I always assumed Konami was a God in Japan. Still, I gotta wonder if there's any proto's of at least a Contra and Turtles, if not also a Sparkster and Sunset Riders game. He doesn't think so though. He feels that M2 really would've pushed to get those as Easter eggs on the Turbo Mini. Although, they apparently didn't push to get Battle Juggler in there in it's unfinished state, nor a possible Xexyx proto....if it ever got that far.
I suppose this is one of the reasons I've always had an obsession with wanting to work on a homebrew version of Contra, and the first Turtles arcade game(besides Super C, Operation C, TMNT 1 & 3 NES versions).
I just thought I'd bring this up here. Maybe somebody here has some comments or insight?
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Post by spenoza on Sept 4, 2022 14:57:22 GMT
Contra and TMNT were not hot properties in Japan like they were in the US. Konami’s support for the PCE and MD were how they supported the Japanese and US markets respectively alongside the SNES/SFC as they transitioned away from the NES and MSX. MD development focused on titles they thought would do well in the US market and PCE development was focused on the JPN market.
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Post by paranoiadragon on Sept 4, 2022 22:43:29 GMT
I remember reading an egm eons ago that Konami was supposedly specifically setting up a us branch for Turbo games, both developing and translating. I now sincerely doubt they ever had any plans to do that because I don't see any indication of them doing that even maybe for the SNES or Genny, let alone the Turbob. Although I suppose it's possible that they did have a US branch that made games and also translated games for the SNES and Genesis, and I was just never aware of it? I do remember getting completely excited when I saw that, and they showed a bunch of pictures of Gradius and Salamander and I think Snatcher. Actually, Snatcher on Sega CD might be an example of a US Konami branch that was set up to at least translate games from japan.
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Post by spenoza on Sept 5, 2022 3:18:53 GMT
If they did it was to translate slot machines.
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Post by paranoiadragon on Sept 5, 2022 12:28:42 GMT
.....and pachinko!
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Post by SignOfZeta on Sept 6, 2022 13:01:58 GMT
Yeah, this isn’t a mystery at all. The PCE didn’t really leave Japan and in Japan they had way WAY better cartoons to base video games on. Ironically having way better shows to base games on did not actually result in better cartoon based gaming. I don’t think they made a decent Gundam game until the early/mid 90s, for example.
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Post by crisgenjin on Sept 11, 2022 22:31:51 GMT
With the recent Cowabunga Collection, it got me thinking. The SNES and Genesis both got Turtles games, but the PCE didn't. Now we understand the PCE to have sold like hotcakes, I would guess from 87-91 or there abouts. On the otherhand, the Mega Drive some consider a failure. I remember BITD when I was in Jr High, a buddy of mine got a PCE thru a friend of his in Japan. His friend claimed that everybody had a PC Engine, and nobody had a Mega Drive. And he joked that the few that had an MD, used it as a doorstop. However, quite a few high profile games made their way to the MD. I especially think that it's weird, that the SNES and Genny each for 2 Ninja Turtles games, 1 Contra, Sunset Riders, and at least 1 Sparkster/Rocket Knight game(apparently the MD got 2, which I only recently discovered after all these years. It makes me wonder, if at the least, some of these 4 properties got some development before being abandoned. I always imagined Konami at least doing a souped up port of the 1st TMNT Arcade game, and perhaps souped up versions of Contra and/or Super C. The reason I say these games, is cuz most of Konami's games on the Turbob are ports with exception to Tokimeki Memorial and Drac X. So it seems likely they would've done ports of at least a Contra and Turtles games. When doing research, I didn't realize that Konami only made 9 games(10 if you count Battle Juggler), while the MD got 16, and of coarse the SNES got over 40(although, some of these games were only published by Konami). Most articles I read list Konami as a staunch supporter of the Turbob with the likes of Namco, Taito, and I forget who else(I'd argue Telenet, NCS/Masaya & Naxat Soft were, besides Hudson and NEC Avenue). Konami really didn't do all that much though, and they came later in the game compared to those other companies. Why did Konami come in so late(not to mention Capcom not even being a publisher, but apparently did some developing) and also only produce 9 games, for a system that was as popular as the Turbob, but then support the Genny more even though there was a smaller user base? I brought it up in an Evercade Discord thread, and one guy who used to work for one of the old gaming mags(I forget, EGM, GamePro, etc.) said it was all about the Western market(which is something I thought maybe was a possibility). He said Konami did better in the Western market, than they did in their own territory. That's something I'd never heard of before, I guess I always assumed Konami was a God in Japan. Still, I gotta wonder if there's any proto's of at least a Contra and Turtles, if not also a Sparkster and Sunset Riders game. He doesn't think so though. He feels that M2 really would've pushed to get those as Easter eggs on the Turbo Mini. Although, they apparently didn't push to get Battle Juggler in there in it's unfinished state, nor a possible Xexyx proto....if it ever got that far. I suppose this is one of the reasons I've always had an obsession with wanting to work on a homebrew version of Contra, and the first Turtles arcade game(besides Super C, Operation C, TMNT 1 & 3 NES versions). I just thought I'd bring this up here. Maybe somebody here has some comments or insight? Seeing as how Konami released old arcade games like Gradius 1 on PC Engine even though their sequels were already out by then, I think they could've made amazing Contra and Super C ports on the machine (Maybe with more bonus content on top of the NES-exclusive stuff). Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 would've also turned out very well with enough memory on the cartridge/card
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Post by spenoza on Sept 11, 2022 23:12:06 GMT
You’re missing the point. Those games weren’t big in the Japanese market. They wouldn’t have been worth the investment for Konami. There was no business reason for Konami to develop them on the PCE.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Sept 12, 2022 13:52:26 GMT
There was probably one Turtles arcade machine in Tokyo…right next to the Mortal Kombat machine. I don’t think the drunk guy who actually put ¥100 in the thing by accident once was enough of a market to justify a PCE version. The questions that must have ran through the mind of an average Japanese person when looking at these games…
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Post by dshadoff on Sept 12, 2022 14:37:50 GMT
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Post by crisgenjin on Sept 12, 2022 15:05:53 GMT
There was probably one Turtles arcade machine in Tokyo…right next to the Mortal Kombat machine. I don’t think the drunk guy who actually put ¥100 in the thing by accident once was enough of a market to justify a PCE version. The questions that must have ran through the mind of an average Japanese person when looking at these games… TMNT actually had a decent following in Japan, and it was popular enough to create spin-offs (Including a really frickin' weird one where the Turtles are human and can turn in their mutant forms at will). But it just couldn't compete with home-grown stuff, especially during a time when the mecha genre was gaining more and more momentum
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Post by SignOfZeta on Sept 12, 2022 16:59:19 GMT
There was probably one Turtles arcade machine in Tokyo…right next to the Mortal Kombat machine. I don’t think the drunk guy who actually put ¥100 in the thing by accident once was enough of a market to justify a PCE version. The questions that must have ran through the mind of an average Japanese person when looking at these games… TMNT actually had a decent following in Japan, and it was popular enough to create spin-offs (Including a really frickin' weird one where the Turtles are human and can turn in their mutant forms at will). But it just couldn't compete with home-grown stuff, especially during a time when the mecha genre was gaining more and more momentum The mecha genre? We’re talking about post-Archie Turtles here so 1988 at the earliest, I’d say the mecha genre was well on its way out by then. Most mecha heavy series by that point had been banished to OVA land. Peak robo anime years for mainstream fans were probably 1973-1987, pretty much turfing out on Dragonar and Char’s Counterattack.
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Post by crisgenjin on Sept 13, 2022 1:00:19 GMT
TMNT actually had a decent following in Japan, and it was popular enough to create spin-offs (Including a really frickin' weird one where the Turtles are human and can turn in their mutant forms at will). But it just couldn't compete with home-grown stuff, especially during a time when the mecha genre was gaining more and more momentum The mecha genre? We’re talking about post-Archie Turtles here so 1988 at the earliest, I’d say the mecha genre was well on its way out by then. Most mecha heavy series by that point had been banished to OVA land. Peak robo anime years for mainstream fans were probably 1973-1987, pretty much turfing out on Dragonar and Char’s Counterattack. You're telling me Neon Genesis Evangelion and the dozen or so of Gundam spin-offs weren't popular!?!?
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Post by SignOfZeta on Sept 13, 2022 14:22:31 GMT
The mecha genre? We’re talking about post-Archie Turtles here so 1988 at the earliest, I’d say the mecha genre was well on its way out by then. Most mecha heavy series by that point had been banished to OVA land. Peak robo anime years for mainstream fans were probably 1973-1987, pretty much turfing out on Dragonar and Char’s Counterattack. You're telling me Neon Genesis Evangelion and the dozen or so of Gundam spin-offs weren't popular!?!? Eva nearly killed off what was left of the mecha genre. It was popular with exactly the sort of people who didn’t care about robot shows. It doesn’t even have robots in it, just gross meat marionettes. The Gundam shows of the 90s paid the bills but they were nothing $$$-wise compared to the originals which is why they kept making new alternate worlds. Even now toys and models and Blu-ray’s of Universal Century stuff make more money than any new Gundam show. Check out like…1981-1985. That was max mecha saturation. Gundam I-III in theaters, Macross TV, Macross DYRL, Zeta Gundam, Transformers, Southern Cross, Mospeada, Xabungle, Ideon. It was mechamania compared to the 90s or now.
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Post by spenoza on Sept 13, 2022 17:55:40 GMT
Mecha have a certain healthy stable popularity in Japan, but it hasn't really been booming since the 80s. And regardless of the Japanese having a unique take on TMNT, that doesn't really mean TMNT was ever popular enough there to demand a slew of unique Japanese games. There were certainly enough western-focused titles to fill that demand without additional development.
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