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Post by spenoza on Mar 17, 2022 13:53:11 GMT
I've been looking for RPGs to play on some of my handhelds, but it also got me thinking about 16-bit RPGs. What was the most "advanced" RPG on the PC Engine? Is there anything that could rival the best of the SNES or Genesis in terms of technical implementation? What RPGs are your favorite?
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 17, 2022 14:40:29 GMT
“Advanced” is difficult to pin down. I know what you’re getting at though and, no. If the most high end RPG on Genesis is Phantasy Star IV and the most advanced on SNES is…hard to even guess due to the competition…Phantasia, DQVI, FFVI…then I’m having a hard time saying that anything on PCE even comes close. The PCE has more of the garagista level stuff though that I honestly like more, Telnet, Falcom, etc.
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Post by dshadoff on Mar 17, 2022 14:43:27 GMT
Could you explain what you criteria for “advanced” might be ? Is it story, technical merit, gameplay mechanics, player skill/attribute tracking system… or perhaps something else like side quests ? In the mid-90s, many of these were identified as “technical” achievements.
Also, since you’re referring to handhelds, are you including or excluding CD-ROM format games ?
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 17, 2022 15:01:00 GMT
The job system in FFV, the numerous endings of Chrono Trigger, the clock built into Tengai Zero, playing as your son and then your grandson in Phantasy Star III, making an crude formant synthesizer out of the SNES so that the characters can sing part of the script of FFVI as an opera…that kind of thing.
The most “advanced” RPG like this I ever finished on PCE is Startling Odyssey II. In that one you do have a son but it turns out he was the hero of Startling Odyssey I, which I never played, so it wasn’t really a gameplay thing but just a cool ending. The PCE has a lot of games that are basically Dragon Quest I or II level but with so much CDROM-ness added that you don’t care.
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Post by spenoza on Mar 17, 2022 15:27:49 GMT
Oh, the handheld bit was just that that's what prompted the thought. CD-ROM games are absolutely included. I'm thinking about RPGs that look good, sound good, and also do interesting things with the mechanics, basically RPGs that are more than, as Zeta puts it, DQ I and II level stuff.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 17, 2022 18:16:58 GMT
I really like Startling Odyssey II and Star Breaker, both by the same company. They sort of follow the Telenet model of having a semi famous character/mecha designer kinda…drive the entire project…to the extent that you never notice that most of the items are useless and the magic is completely avoidable for the entire game or something like that.
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Post by dshadoff on Mar 17, 2022 20:25:00 GMT
The ones which keep coming up over the years as looking good etc. are: Legend of Xanadu Legend of Xanadu 2 Seiya Monogatari
Linda3 has a reputation of being unique, and as a latecomer, is likely “advanced” in some regards. Gulliver Boy also has some interesting technology under the covers, but doesn’t quite have the same superlative reputation about story.
Monster Maker is super-buggy, so stay away from that one.
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Post by digipiggy on Mar 18, 2022 0:00:44 GMT
I don't think anything will rival stuff like Chrono trigger of Final Fantasy VI or Seiken Densetsu 3 but then how many other companies could whip out games like Square Enix back in the 16 bit days ? They were in a league of their own. As dshadoff mentioned LoX I & II and Anearth Fantasy Stories are the few that spring to my mind also which I feel could sit along some of the best Megadrive JRPGS. Also Blood Gear. But alas unfortunately I wish there was more areas that made use of layered scrolling this perhaps the only stage that looked impressive. Sol Moonarge
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 18, 2022 19:19:43 GMT
I thought about mentioning Blood Gear. I guess it’s an RPG. It’s reaaalllly good.
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Post by turboxray on Mar 24, 2022 19:45:02 GMT
“Advanced” is difficult to pin down. I know what you’re getting at though and, no. If the most high end RPG on Genesis is Phantasy Star IV and the most advanced on SNES is…hard to even guess due to the competition…Phantasia, DQVI, FFVI…then I’m having a hard time saying that anything on PCE even comes close. The PCE has more of the garagista level stuff though that I honestly like more, Telnet, Falcom, etc. I'm not sure about "advanced" either, but I tend to classify them as tiers. High tier RPGs just have more polish of everything; story, plot, fleshed out character development, graphics, music, etc. Just highly polished in almost all areas. I guess that's what equates to advanced. I think Ys IV fits that criteria though. The level of polish in that game is pretty high up there. And for its time, FFoE 2 too. That said, why do some PCE RPGs insist on having black backgrounds? I was watching Momotarou Densetsu II playthrough the other day and for December 1990 game... why ?? More than 3 years after the release of the PCE. It's like they were trying to go for an NES/Famicom aesthetics.
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keithcourage
Punkic Cyborg
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Post by keithcourage on Mar 25, 2022 3:06:39 GMT
I actually prefer less animations or backgrounds for battle systems in RPGs because it makes the battles shorter. Less time wasted. So Cosmic Fantasy 2 is one of my faves on the system.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 25, 2022 10:23:07 GMT
No game has faster battles than Tengai Makyou II.
Also I should have mentioned that game as well as Kabuki.
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Post by spenoza on Mar 25, 2022 12:40:47 GMT
They all seem so mechanically simple, though. It’s like everyone was so focused on the anime sequences they didn’t experiment any with the core mechanicals.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Mar 25, 2022 12:55:38 GMT
“Advanced” is difficult to pin down. I know what you’re getting at though and, no. If the most high end RPG on Genesis is Phantasy Star IV and the most advanced on SNES is…hard to even guess due to the competition…Phantasia, DQVI, FFVI…then I’m having a hard time saying that anything on PCE even comes close. The PCE has more of the garagista level stuff though that I honestly like more, Telnet, Falcom, etc. I'm not sure about "advanced" either, but I tend to classify them as tiers. High tier RPGs just have more polish of everything; story, plot, fleshed out character development, graphics, music, etc. Just highly polished in almost all areas. I guess that's what equates to advanced. I think Ys IV fits that criteria though. The level of polish in that game is pretty high up there. And for its time, FFoE 2 too. That said, why do some PCE RPGs insist on having black backgrounds? I was watching Momotarou Densetsu II playthrough the other day and for December 1990 game... why ?? More than 3 years after the release of the PCE. It's like they were trying to go for an NES/Famicom aesthetics. Context: Dragon Quest III (1988) made $143 million in just the first month of its Japanese release. I’m %99 sure no five PCE games combined generated that kind of money. It has black backgrounds in fights. DQIV finally added BGs in 1990. You do what you have to, don’t always do what you don’t have to, that’s life.
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Post by turboxray on Mar 25, 2022 16:26:09 GMT
I'm not sure about "advanced" either, but I tend to classify them as tiers. High tier RPGs just have more polish of everything; story, plot, fleshed out character development, graphics, music, etc. Just highly polished in almost all areas. I guess that's what equates to advanced. I think Ys IV fits that criteria though. The level of polish in that game is pretty high up there. And for its time, FFoE 2 too. That said, why do some PCE RPGs insist on having black backgrounds? I was watching Momotarou Densetsu II playthrough the other day and for December 1990 game... why ?? More than 3 years after the release of the PCE. It's like they were trying to go for an NES/Famicom aesthetics. Context: Dragon Quest III (1988) made $143 million in just the first month of its Japanese release. I’m %99 sure no five PCE games combined generated that kind of money. It has black backgrounds in fights. DQIV finally added BGs in 1990. You do what you have to, don’t always do what you don’t have to, that’s life. They are black backgrounds because of color and sub-palette hardware limitations on the Famicom. PCE doesn't have anything remotely related to those limitations (yes, some CDROM 2.0 games have ram limitations that prevents having BGs for battle scenes). DQ IV does have black backgrounds for battle scenes on the Famicom/NES. Stats: Momotarou Densetsu 2 is a 6megabit game. It has over 150k of unused space (in large blocks) in the rom. They had the rom budget for backgrounds in the game. There wasn't any reason technical reason why they didn't have graphic back drops in the battle scenes. What DQIII pulled in is irrelevant; why would you purposely make something look inferior on a competing platform?? And as a 6megabit hucard - I doubt the project was specifically low budget.
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