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Post by spenoza on Nov 10, 2020 3:38:49 GMT
A lot of the CD music was made on the same keyboards the musicians were using to compose, so for some titles that probably wasn’t too much extra if extra at all. But that meant that devs could go all-out if they wanted to. Voice actors were an expense but only for certain genres, typically. CDs definitely raised the expense ceiling a lot, but I doubt they raised the expense floor too much.
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a
Deep Blooper
Posts: 40
Fave PCE Shooter: 1943 Kai
Fave PCE Platformer: what's a platformer?
Fave PCE RPG: No.
Currently Playing: Soldier Blade Special
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Post by a on Nov 10, 2020 9:24:12 GMT
I guess I ask this question because there is a certain romance and elegance to using the tiny bare bones PC Engine system. The duo systems just look like regular consoles.... The little PCE and Core Systems are as nearly portable as a Sega Mega Jet or some other semi-portable system. It’s an aesthetically spectacular piece of equipment but i find the magic is slightly diminished when adding anything. Minimalism. Also putting a tiny card into a tiny box and playing games of that quality looks damn near like a magic trick by 1987 standards.
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Post by Black_Tiger on Nov 10, 2020 17:20:22 GMT
I guess I ask this question because there is a certain romance and elegance to using the tiny bare bones PC Engine system. The duo systems just look like regular consoles.... The little PCE and Core Systems are as nearly portable as a Sega Mega Jet or some other semi-portable system. It’s an aesthetically spectacular piece of equipment but i find the magic is slightly diminished when adding anything. Minimalism. Also putting a tiny card into a tiny box and playing games of that quality looks damn near like a magic trick by 1987 standards. We now have the Super SD System 3 and matching PC Engine shells. It's the entire official and unofficial PCE library in roughly the size of a Neo Geo cart.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Nov 10, 2020 17:45:34 GMT
I guess I ask this question because there is a certain romance and elegance to using the tiny bare bones PC Engine system. The duo systems just look like regular consoles.... The little PCE and Core Systems are as nearly portable as a Sega Mega Jet or some other semi-portable system. It’s an aesthetically spectacular piece of equipment but i find the magic is slightly diminished when adding anything. Minimalism. Also putting a tiny card into a tiny box and playing games of that quality looks damn near like a magic trick by 1987 standards. Yeah, well, we’ll be over here playing video games.
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Post by spenoza on Nov 10, 2020 18:26:37 GMT
Between the SSDS3 and the coming Analogue Duo, there are more affordable and easier ways to access the entire library, which is only a good thing.
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a
Deep Blooper
Posts: 40
Fave PCE Shooter: 1943 Kai
Fave PCE Platformer: what's a platformer?
Fave PCE RPG: No.
Currently Playing: Soldier Blade Special
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Post by a on Nov 10, 2020 19:33:14 GMT
I wonder if an ODE for duo systems will ever be available.
I plan in getting a SSD3 for my coregrafx. It’s by far the most elegant solution. So many shmups in a tiny package
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Post by spenoza on Nov 10, 2020 19:55:54 GMT
I wonder if an ODE for duo systems will ever be available.
No telling. Hobbyist hardware devs will tackle almost anything. That said, What would the point of it really be, given the wider availability of Core units?
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a
Deep Blooper
Posts: 40
Fave PCE Shooter: 1943 Kai
Fave PCE Platformer: what's a platformer?
Fave PCE RPG: No.
Currently Playing: Soldier Blade Special
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Post by a on Nov 10, 2020 21:52:44 GMT
Well a lot of PCE users already own Duo units. And the price of core units has gone way up. So a duo ODE would be targeted at people who already own and play duos
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Post by dshadoff on Nov 10, 2020 21:54:07 GMT
I wonder if an ODE for duo systems will ever be available. I plan in getting a SSD3 for my coregrafx. It’s by far the most elegant solution. So many shmups in a tiny package No use trying to retrofit a duo; you'd need to access internal connections or externalize the sound output. Messy either way. Instead, get a MiSTer, if small packages and elegance are drivers.
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a
Deep Blooper
Posts: 40
Fave PCE Shooter: 1943 Kai
Fave PCE Platformer: what's a platformer?
Fave PCE RPG: No.
Currently Playing: Soldier Blade Special
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Post by a on Nov 10, 2020 22:50:08 GMT
Every other ODE for disc consoles requires you to swap the disc drive for the ODE device. Rhea, Terraonion MODE, etc. they all sit inside the console. Super SD System 3 and Mega SD is pretty much the only exception.
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Post by Gentlegamer on Nov 10, 2020 23:01:11 GMT
But nobody asks (that I've read), "Why did people make all those mapper chips for the NES? Why didn't they just keep making base NES games? What would the NES have been like if there hadn't been any mapper chips?" Same for the SNES.
Sega fanboys definitely do.
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Post by Black_Tiger on Nov 11, 2020 0:05:50 GMT
From what I understand the Famicom/NES hardware can't actually run roms/games on its own and mappers are required in every cart.
The SNES hardware is good to go for running games as far as I know and there aren't many SNES games with extra chips in them.
But you must have missed out on a lot of pcefx threads if you haven't read these kinds of discussions.
What stands out more than Nintendo games using extra chips as often as they did is the fact that Sega 8 & 16-bit and PCE games performed so well without any.
That and the fact that every PCE CD game can not only be recreated on a HuCard, but they could also be improved (especially fmv games).
Sapphire is a good example of how so many CD games don't max out the chip sound channels. You could have nice chip tunes instead of redbook and still keep the sampled sfx. Or you could even dedicate a single channel to play the redbook bgm at whatever frequency doesn't require additional cpu resource.
Rom space is the bottleneck for both cards and CDs. The size of the rom is the limit for cards and the size of rewritable HuCard IFUs use is the bottleneck for how much can happen at once in a CD game.
The media formats are only delivery systems, but CD games are still downloading content into a tiny HuCard, or in the case of ACD, a decent sized HuCard. The extra sound channels are not much different than the Famicom games with cassette audio.
Either way it's the "base"/"core" hardware handling everything.
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Post by spenoza on Nov 11, 2020 1:44:08 GMT
NROM, identified as mapper 0, doesn’t actually do any mapping, so functionally it’s not really a mapper. NROM games like Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong would thus be considered the most basic non-mapper NES games.
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a
Deep Blooper
Posts: 40
Fave PCE Shooter: 1943 Kai
Fave PCE Platformer: what's a platformer?
Fave PCE RPG: No.
Currently Playing: Soldier Blade Special
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Post by a on Nov 11, 2020 2:50:58 GMT
From what I understand the Famicom/NES hardware can't actually run roms/games on its own and mappers are required in every cart. The SNES hardware is good to go for running games as far as I know and there aren't many SNES games with extra chips in them. But you must have missed out on a lot of pcefx threads if you haven't read these kinds of discussions. What stands out more than Nintendo games using extra chips as often as they did is the fact that Sega 8 & 16-bit and PCE games performed so well without any. That and the fact that every PCE CD game can not only be recreated on a HuCard, but they could also be improved (especially fmv games). Sapphire is a good example of how so many CD games don't max out the chip sound channels. You could have nice chip tunes instead of redbook and still keep the sampled sfx. Or you could even dedicate a single channel to play the redbook bgm at whatever frequency doesn't require additional cpu resource. Rom space is the bottleneck for both cards and CDs. The size of the rom is the limit for cards and the size of rewritable HuCard IFUs use is the bottleneck for how much can happen at once in a CD game. The media formats are only delivery systems, but CD games are still downloading content into a tiny HuCard, or in the case of ACD, a decent sized HuCard. The extra sound channels are not much different than the Famicom games with cassette audio. Either way it's the "base"/"core" hardware handling everything. i believe the HE System hardware would have made some really nice arcade games if they used huge Roms. especially the supergrafx chipset. they should have made a neo geo competitor with infinite ROM space
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Post by spenoza on Nov 11, 2020 4:06:08 GMT
They did briefly make an arcade version of the PCE and it was pretty much an abject failure.
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