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Post by mafoo343 on Jul 11, 2020 20:37:54 GMT
Hey guys,
I was recently thinking about getting into PC Engine collecting but I'm not sure where to begin. I'm on a bit of a tight budget so, for the time being, I'm thinking I'll forgo getting a console itself and instead I'll simply purchase a systemcard 3.0 and a cheap USB flash cart to dump its contents so I can just emulate the console. That way, I can focus more on purchasing the games for the system. The thing is, since I'm kind of a noob to PC Engine game collecting, I'm not sure where I should get a systemcard 3.0, the flash cart or the games. I have made import purchases from EBay in the past, but the problem with the cheaper listings is that they tend to be bootlegs instead of legitimate copies; and the import prices for the legit copies tend to be beefed up quite a bit due to the pandemic situation. One alternative that seems promising is "www.genkivideogames.com" but I don't have any previous experience buying from them so I'm not really sure if they're reputable or not. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions as to good places to buy legitimate PC Engine stuff online, I would really appreciate it. I'd also appreciate if anyone could give me a recommendation regarding what would be a good cheap beginner flash cart for my purposes.
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keithcourage
Punkic Cyborg
https://www.facebook.com/turbografxfan/
Posts: 230
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Post by keithcourage on Jul 11, 2020 21:24:57 GMT
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Post by rcantor77 on Jul 11, 2020 21:50:30 GMT
Join up to teh 'Allan's Japanese Retro Games sales' group on Facebook. Used to be BigAl on the old PCengineFX forums and now is full time selling Japanese games... he has tons of stock.
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Post by mafoo343 on Jul 12, 2020 0:15:16 GMT
Thanks for the advice keithcourage. Part of the reason I wanted to get into PC Engine collecting in the first place was that I'm currently working on translating Galaxy Fraulein Yuna Remix for the Sega Saturn into English. That game is a remake of the PC Engine Super CD title featured on this site's banner, and the script for that game is pretty much a copy and paste from the original. The only differences I've been able to spot, based on the PC Engine let's plays I've seen, is that a few lines were cut from the intro and instances of the heart symbol were replaced with a star symbol in the remake. Otherwise, it's completely the same.
Eventually, when I have sizeable amount of content translated, I was planning to upload the first in a series of let's play videos to YouTube with the English translation in the closed captions. The goal is to try to eventually get the attention of someone from romhacking.net or the like to make a translation patch for the game. With that being said, while the remake was okay, most people seem to generally prefer the PC Engine original, which is why if at all possible, I'd rather record footage for that version of the game instead. I think the chief source of criticism for the remake was that the backgrounds look overly simplistic at times, compared to what the Saturn hardware can handle, and as a result people tend to prefer the look of the original. With that being said, if I can't track down an affordable copy of the original, I think I'll just have hold off for the time being, like what you were saying, and I'll just record a let's play for the remake instead.
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Post by dshadoff on Jul 12, 2020 3:37:25 GMT
Yuna is not so expensive a game, but it comes as one of two possible releases: - The original was a single CD case - The re-release was as a 2-disc set, the second disc being a HuVideo sampler. The re-release was roughly coincident with the Yuna 2 release.
If you search on ebay, you'll see several listings in the $10 range, but when coming from Japan the shipping can be more expensive than the game, so you may want to check for sellers who will combine shipping, and checking if they have other lower-priced games that you want in the same shipment.
As for translation of the game, I think this one is actually a reasonable target; I seem to recall looking at it briefly in the past and finding uncompressed SJIS text.
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Post by AggieTsubi on Jul 12, 2020 12:56:02 GMT
That's strange. In my 20+ years of experience buying American and Japanese retro games on eBay, I've found that imports on eBay are virtually always legit (now, if we were talking game-related merch, like soundtracks, that's a different story). It's the American releases where these days I have to wade through massive amounts of bootlegs. As long as you're not buying a PC Engine game that's crazy expensive to get legit, like Sapphire, I think you can shop on eBay relatively worry-free and find the best deals with patience, as said above. The only problem right now is that, in addition to some prices being inflated, the pandemic has also placed restrictions on shipping internationally for those in Japan. Some big sellers of retro imports have had absolutely nothing for sale on eBay for a while, when normally they'd have hundreds of listing, including lots of PC Engine games. So currently, the availability of imports isn't what it used to be.
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Post by mafoo343 on Jul 12, 2020 15:44:14 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking I'll go with the 1995 rerelease since it has that bonus HuVideo disc. With that being said, there's one other thing I was wondering about when it comes to purchasing CD titles. For the most part they seem to come in white cases, but every so often I see a copy or two in a black jewel case instead. Are different jewel case colors for the same game a normal thing for PC Engine games, or is that an indicator that it's a bootleg?
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Post by dshadoff on Jul 12, 2020 15:54:32 GMT
American releases were black cases (offhand I can't remember if there were any exceptions to this); Japanese were mostly white (though a few were clear). However, there were a few discs which came bundled with magazines, and didn't originally have a case.
...Probably best to ask here when in doubt.
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Post by Black_Tiger on Jul 12, 2020 16:39:31 GMT
That's strange. In my 20+ years of experience buying American and Japanese retro games on eBay, I've found that imports on eBay are virtually always legit (now, if we were talking game-related merch, like soundtracks, that's a different story). It's the American releases where these days I have to wade through massive amounts of bootlegs. As long as you're not buying a PC Engine game that's crazy expensive to get legit, like Sapphire, I think you can shop on eBay relatively worry-free and find the best deals with patience, as said above. The only problem right now is that, in addition to some prices being inflated, the pandemic has also placed restrictions on shipping internationally for those in Japan. Some big sellers of retro imports have had absolutely nothing for sale on eBay for a while, when normally they'd have hundreds of listing, including lots of PC Engine games. So currently, the availability of imports isn't what it used to be. PCEWorks has already bootlegged most pricey PC Engine games and many ebay sellers flip stacks of them with misleading descriptions and photos.
There are also lots of modern made "HuCards" which are sold the same way as modern bootlegs of other 16-bit console games. They assume you know what you're buying and know that younger generations of collectors don't care.
Many people today love showing off their collections of "repros" and brag about how many thousands of dollars they've spent on them while also discouraging others from buying flashcarts. They insist that using a flashcart isn't playing "real" games like their bootlegs are.
Take a look at the photos of this listing:
This seller is actually saying "reproduction" in the description, but there is no red flag on the packaging to warn you that this is a bootleg.
The name "PCEWorks" with the Japanese logo was designed to look like something authentic, like the JASRAC sticker. Many newer collectors value the bootlegs much more than authentic PC Engine games.
Here is a sealed "PCEWorks" copy of Dracula X that sold for $400:
Even if it's shill bidding/buying to inflate prices, it's working as so many people on other forums/social media talk about paying these prices for bootlegs.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jul 12, 2020 16:39:33 GMT
First of all: why do you need a flash cart and a System Card to emulate stuff? Am I not reading your post correctly or something?
Secondly: you’re way too paranoid about bootlegs. The only PCE bootlegs that are possible to confuse with real ones are the PCE Works stuff. Avoid those, avoid actual CD-Rs, avoid broken HuCARDs from 25 years ago, and you won’t have any boots. Shop eBay, YAJ, the usual places.
Lastly, I’m very grateful for anyone translating any Yuna game. I wish you the best of luck on your project. I don’t think you need to blow $5000 on getting into PCE 30 years late because of it though. I honestly wouldn’t recommend anyone start collecting anything retro game-wise. The scene is totally overrun with scumbags and idiots and the prices have gone through the roof on almost everything.
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Post by mafoo343 on Jul 12, 2020 17:39:03 GMT
First of all: why do you need a flash cart and a System Card to emulate stuff? Am I not reading your post correctly or something? The reason I was looking into getting a system 3.0 card and a flash cart was that in order to emulate CD games, you need a system bios to get pretty much any PC Engine emulator to run CD titles. Since I'm not really okay with just getting a bios off the internet, I was going to use a flash cart with a usb connection to dump the system 3.0 bios off the system 3.0 hucard instead. Originally, I would have just gone with a PC Engine emulator that had an HLE bios option, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a single PC Engine emulator out there, at least that I know of, that has anything like that. That's why I wanted to use a roundabout method like that to get games running in an emulator in the first place. As for your second point SignOfZeta, you're absolutely right. Fairly early on during my retro collecting in general I got scammed a few times before I really knew what bootlegs were, and I guess I've always had a little bit of a pet peeve about it ever since. I guess that's why I'm so overly cautious, I'm sorry if I came across as a bit paranoid about it. I guess I just kind of wanted to know what I was getting into beforehand so I knew what to look out for. Finally, thanks for the support regarding the Yuna translation. Once I've finished translating the original, I hope to move on to translating the sequel as well. I was fortunate enough to actually find a copy of the sequel for the PC Engine at a brick and mortar store in the US with the spine card and everything. The couple that runs the place are real nice people and once every year they fly over to Japan and get some pretty amazing stuff in stock. The main reason I'm holding back on playing that (aside from still needing to dump the bios) is that I want to finish the first game before moving on to the sequel. I'll be sure to keep working as hard as I can to get the translation to you guys as soon as possible.
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Post by dshadoff on Jul 12, 2020 20:37:22 GMT
I'm not sure how you'd be able to dump the BIOS with just a flash cart. If you want to possess a System 3.0 card so that usage of the image is justified, I understand. But a flash cart like a TurboEverdrive has no way to connect to the System Card in order to provide a dump.
If you're concerned about the possibility of getting a bad image, I have verified CRC32 signatures for each Japanese card, in order to verify.
On the other hand, if you get an UperGrafx or SSDS3 attachment for a (white) PC Engine or Core Grafx (or CoreGrafx II) machine, they are able to dump cartridges which are plugged into to the device.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jul 12, 2020 22:12:32 GMT
Yeah, flash cards are for playing ROMs, not dumping them.
Also, it’s a 30 year old BIOS for a dead system. Just download the thing. No matter how complex and fully formed your opinions of piracy are there is no way to translate a game that doesn’t step on the same legal toes as jacking the BIOS does. None of it belongs to us regardless.
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Post by apolloboy on Jul 12, 2020 23:25:36 GMT
Seconded, I highly doubt Konami will jump on you for downloading the Super CD BIOS.
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Post by mafoo343 on Jul 13, 2020 2:11:35 GMT
I'm not sure how you'd be able to dump the BIOS with just a flash cart. If you want to possess a System 3.0 card so that usage of the image is justified, I understand. But a flash cart like a TurboEverdrive has no way to connect to the System Card in order to provide a dump. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize that wasn't feasible with just a regular flash cart. The good news is that I've finally got the whole situation figured out on my end. I looked into how much it'd be to get an UperGrafx and all the other necessary equipment, like what you suggested, and for the time being I'm going to hold off on that. The combined price for all that stuff is far more expensive then I can afford at the moment, so I was able to find a much cheaper solution. Apparently, the first two Yuna games, along with that super rare Sapphire title, were all ported to the PSP in a compilation. I was lucky enough to find a copy in an auction on Ebay for cheaper than the usual going price, so I was able to get that instead. I already have a Japanese PSP and the like, so I don't have to worry about purchasing addition equipment to get things set up. It's a little bit of a shame that menu theme for the original game, Pink Sapphire's "P.S. I LOVE YOU" was cut from the PSP release due to licensing issues, but other than that, the Yuna games are exactly the same as their original PC Engine releases. As for others recommendations to just download the bios, I totally sympathize with you, though I reserve my right to respectfully disagree. I get that it's a 30+ year old console and that there's basically zero chance of Konami pursuing legal action against me if I downloaded it, but I just wouldn't feel right about doing that regardless. I have nothing against you guys personally, but my own feelings on the matter aren’t going to change; I hope you can understand. With that being said, I’m going to go ahead with using the PSP version for the let’s play footage for the original Yuna, as well as hopefully Yuna 2 after I finish translating the original. The release of the first video will still be a while out yet, though I’m aiming to have at bare minimum the first hour of gameplay translated. I can’t give any exact dates, though I can say that I should be able to have that out at some point before the end of the year. Coinciding with the release of the video, I’ll also provide a link to a little translation guide for that section of the game, just for anyone that might want that. Wish me luck guys, I’ve got a lot of work ahead of me.
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