DutchDimension
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 122
Homebrew skills: Pixel, 2D and 3D art
Fave PCE Shooter: Override
Fave PCE Platformer: Mizbak's Adventure
Fave PCE Game Overall: Too many to choose from
Fave PCE RPG: Ys series
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Post by DutchDimension on Jan 29, 2020 14:22:15 GMT
So long time Pixel-Master Henk Nieborg, has finally launched a Kickstarter for his own personal project. As can be expected from Henk, it looks rather amazing.
Battle Axe kickstarter
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Post by gredler on Jan 29, 2020 18:24:27 GMT
Wow, so gorgeous - thanks for sharing this!
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DutchDimension
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 122
Homebrew skills: Pixel, 2D and 3D art
Fave PCE Shooter: Override
Fave PCE Platformer: Mizbak's Adventure
Fave PCE Game Overall: Too many to choose from
Fave PCE RPG: Ys series
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Post by DutchDimension on Jan 29, 2020 23:36:32 GMT
Henk is the artist behind games such as The Adventures of Lomax, Shantae, Contra 4 and the recent Xeno Crisis. The lead coder is Mike Tucker, from Xeno Crisis fame.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jan 30, 2020 2:31:45 GMT
I realize money controls everything but I sure would like it if more of these games just ran on the hardware that it looks like they run on. It’s so disappointing to see this kind of thing and realize you have to buy something brand new for $400 if you want to play what is basically a SNES game. This kind of thing is what eventually conned me into buying a PS3 which...wahoo!...is now already too old for people to dev for anymore even though it could run games like this in its sleep so I won’t be buying a PS4 to play this.
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Post by spenoza on Jan 30, 2020 12:08:35 GMT
Conned? Really? That’s the word you’re going with?
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DutchDimension
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 122
Homebrew skills: Pixel, 2D and 3D art
Fave PCE Shooter: Override
Fave PCE Platformer: Mizbak's Adventure
Fave PCE Game Overall: Too many to choose from
Fave PCE RPG: Ys series
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Post by DutchDimension on Jan 30, 2020 16:24:16 GMT
I would love to see this on the PC-Engine, but there is no way our console could pull this off graphically. Neither can the MD or SNES. Pray tell, what console did you have in mind? Saturn? NeoGeo? They could perhaps do it. What else? The DreamCast wasn't really a 2D pixel art type of console. Neither was the PlayStation. And anything newer and we're almost back to where the game is released for. Anyway, I think it's a good thing these sort of games are being developed, if only to keep pixel-art relevant.
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Post by Black_Tiger on Jan 30, 2020 18:01:06 GMT
I would love to see this on the PC-Engine, but there is no way our console could pull this off graphically. Neither can the MD or SNES. Pray tell, what console did you have in mind? Saturn? NeoGeo? They could perhaps do it. What else? The DreamCast wasn't really a 2D pixel art type of console. Neither was the PlayStation. And anything newer and we're almost back to where the game is released for. Anyway, I think it's a good thing these sort of games are being developed, if only to keep pixel-art relevant. I'm a fan of a lot of his work, but I can't get excited about faux pixelart. A modern game would have to have other merits. Those consoles you listed run in low enough resolutions that the artwork would be strained through, that the resulting appearance would be pixelated. They wouldn't be pretending at all. Battle Axe's artwork isn't made for the target consoles, it's faking select aspects of what could be bottlenecks of misc hardware that could have existed. It is the literal definition of "retro". It's cool that there are people interested in that and I won't get into the historical revisionism it's caused. It's not as extreme a contrast, but it shouldn't be necessary to ask why someone prefers a detailed oil painting done by hand to a digital photo with a filter applied to it. Especially when the artists' recent work was authentic. Jan 30, 2020 4:08:35 GMT -8 spenoza said: Conned? Really? That’s the word you’re going with? To be fair, Ken Kutaragi and every magazine at the time insisted that the PS3 was a full generational leap beyond Xbox 360 and you'll start seeing the "real" games any day now...
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Post by spenoza on Jan 30, 2020 18:23:39 GMT
I don't know about the process for Battle Axe, but most pixel art is hand-crafted and not fully-fleshed art that's then pixelated. There are lots of reasons pixel art is popular now, not the least of which is that less-effective artists can still create attractive art. Pixel art is a more attainable level of artisanship, which means more people can create assets and thus also lowers the art costs for a game. Further, these retro-styled games can use less efficient code and still get attractive results, including many titles that integrate lighting effects and shaders. I mean, much of this is really about the democratization of gaming, by which people don't have to be AAA studies or crack artists to put out otherwise good games. And in other cases, it allows us to pair nostalgia with more modern gaming sensibilities. Definitely, in some cases the pixel art or retro style is a gimmick, but in just as many cases it's a way for people to make good-looking, fun-playing games on a budget and with limited resources. To be fair, Ken Kutaragi and every magazine at the time insisted that the PS3 was a full generational leap beyond Xbox 360 and you'll start seeing the "real" games any day now... The quote below doesn't suggest that to me. It suggests buying the PS3 for retro-styled games. If it suggested your point to me I probably wouldn't have any problem with that term. Though to be honest, the Xbox360 had better classic and retro fare. It’s so disappointing to see this kind of thing and realize you have to buy something brand new for $400 if you want to play what is basically a SNES game. This kind of thing is what eventually conned me into buying a PS3 which...wahoo!...is now already too old for people to dev for anymore even though it could run games like this in its sleep so I won’t be buying a PS4 to play this.
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Post by gredler on Jan 30, 2020 18:38:00 GMT
Compared to a the vast majority of modern platform pixel art games, this one at least appears to have a consistent if not perfect texel density, and does not overuse alpha channel or use modern pixel shaders/blending. It looks authentic to me, and seems like something that would be possible on late Neo Geo - what makes it faux to you?
Also, to the point about "I sure would like it if more of these games just ran on the hardware that it looks like they run on. " - The last game this team made was for Genesis and Neo Geo then ported to modern platforms. Did you happen give them money to keep them support their efforts on those platforms? I'd love to see their numbers on switch & ps4 vs neo geo and genesis revenue.
It makes sense that a developer trying to earn a living making independent games would target the platforms that are a) the most supported and therefore easiest to develop for and b) have the largest markets and can potentially make the most money on.
It sucks that your PS3 is too 'old' to receive new developments, and may be coincidence that you used one of the most notoriously difficult systems to develop for as your example of an abandoned platform, but you can go buy plenty of games for many other defunct systems.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jan 30, 2020 18:42:08 GMT
Conned? Really? That’s the word you’re going with? What is the purpose of a post that says “Really?” Yes, “really”. I really meant that. That’s why I typed it. Paying mad money for new machines only to have the abandoned one after another forcing to you buy new ones which will also be abandoned. This is fine if you are mainly there for Uncharted or whatever bullshit people play now but how many times do you want to buy the same port of the same arcade game just to keep the online aspect going? I’d rather pay $70 for a game and have it last forever than pay $7 for it and have the console it’s running on be forcibly made obsolete. I REALLY prefer that. I guess you can start saving for your PS5 so that you can buy Double Dragon again. That’s fine to. I consider it a screwjob.
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Post by spenoza on Jan 30, 2020 18:50:39 GMT
It's just such a hyperbolic word to use. It's not actually a con. It's a frustrating situation, yes, that older systems are constantly abandoned and not retained for continued indie development (that's what the PC is for, arguably), but it's also just how the market works. The new hardware is good for both flashy new and pixelated retro. People only interested in flashy new will move on, meaning there's a smaller and smaller customer base and thus cessation of manufacturing capabilities and marketing. It's no con. Now, there WAS a PS3 near-con, and that was the dropping of Linux support. It's just frustrating to see people SO hyperbolic about such first-world problems...
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jan 30, 2020 20:01:11 GMT
I live in the first world. This is a video game forum so really that’s all we talk about. Should I start a thread about dysentery? I’m afraid I don’t know much about it...
Also, something can be both a screwjob and “just how it’s always been” at the same time. Capitalism, for example. I used my PS3 mainly for watching Blu-ray’s so to me it wasn’t a great investment.
BTW, it’s obvious from the video that no actual vintage system could run this but that’s not my point. Since it’s running on something powerful enough to do Forza they’ll stray from 240 lines and 16 bit color. However if it was made for an older machine then they wouldn’t do that. It’s not like that created the game first and said “OK, what can run this?” They knew it was headed to something 200 million times more powerful than a Genesis so they allowed their designs to stray as far from 16-bit as they liked and then it became something that would never run on a old machine.
When people develop an actual game for an old system they could of course package it in an emulator for modern day distribution (a $9 game that runs for 9 years, pure joy) and sell it on carts to the hardcore, even if it were made for Neo or CPS. The Dreamcast can run some pretty amazing 2D from cheap CDROM and homebrew needs no modification.
I know this was done with some games, right? Pier Solor? The Neogeodev guys. Who else?
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Post by spenoza on Jan 30, 2020 20:15:30 GMT
I do like the idea of emulator-based distribution. I have no idea what titles (other than GOG PC titles and classic collections), if any, are done that way. But that would allow new gamers to have their indie retro titles and collectors and classic enthusiasts to spot hefty cash for original titles. I'm all for it.
Also, a con requires deception. What you described has no element of deception.
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Post by gredler on Jan 30, 2020 20:42:04 GMT
I live in the first world. This is a video game forum so really that’s all we talk about. Should I start a thread about dysentery? I’m afraid I don’t know much about it... Also, something can be both a screwjob and “just how it’s always been” at the same time. Capitalism, for example. I used my PS3 mainly for watching Blu-ray’s so to me it wasn’t a great investment. BTW, it’s obvious from the video that no actual vintage system could run this but that’s not my point. Since it’s running on something powerful enough to do Forza they’ll stray from 240 lines and 16 bit color. However if it was made for an older machine then they wouldn’t do that. It’s not like that created the game first and said “OK, what can run this?” They knew it was headed to something 200 million times more powerful than a Genesis so they allowed their designs to stray as far from 16-bit as they liked and then it became something that would never run on a old machine. When people develop an actual game for an old system they could of course package it in an emulator for modern day distribution (a $9 game that runs for 9 years, pure joy) and sell it on carts to the hardcore, even if it were made for Neo or CPS. The Dreamcast can run some pretty amazing 2D from cheap CDROM and homebrew needs no modification. I know this was done with some games, right? Pier Solor? The Neogeodev guys. Who else? Did you read my last post? I am fairly certain what you are asking is what this team did - they made a game that could be on Genesis and then up-ported it to Neo Geo, then up ported that to XBox, Switch, PS4, and PC. Xenocrisis.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Jan 30, 2020 23:11:20 GMT
I live in the first world. This is a video game forum so really that’s all we talk about. Should I start a thread about dysentery? I’m afraid I don’t know much about it... Also, something can be both a screwjob and “just how it’s always been” at the same time. Capitalism, for example. I used my PS3 mainly for watching Blu-ray’s so to me it wasn’t a great investment. BTW, it’s obvious from the video that no actual vintage system could run this but that’s not my point. Since it’s running on something powerful enough to do Forza they’ll stray from 240 lines and 16 bit color. However if it was made for an older machine then they wouldn’t do that. It’s not like that created the game first and said “OK, what can run this?” They knew it was headed to something 200 million times more powerful than a Genesis so they allowed their designs to stray as far from 16-bit as they liked and then it became something that would never run on a old machine. When people develop an actual game for an old system they could of course package it in an emulator for modern day distribution (a $9 game that runs for 9 years, pure joy) and sell it on carts to the hardcore, even if it were made for Neo or CPS. The Dreamcast can run some pretty amazing 2D from cheap CDROM and homebrew needs no modification. I know this was done with some games, right? Pier Solor? The Neogeodev guys. Who else? Did you read my last post? I am fairly certain what you are asking is what this team did - they made a game that could be on Genesis and then up-ported it to Neo Geo, then up ported that to XBox, Switch, PS4, and PC. Xenocrisis. “I realize money controls everything but I sure would like it if more of these games just ran on the hardware that it looks like they run on. It’s so disappointing to see this kind of thing and realize you have to buy something brand new for $400 if you want to play what is basically a SNES game. ” This was my point. I’m not interested in debating PS3 anymore. It’s disappointing that I need to run out and buy the most powerful game systems ever REGARDLESS OF MANUFACTURE to run something that won’t even come close to revving it’s engine off idle. I don’t know what Xenocrisis is. Is it Xenogears crossed with Dino Crisis? I sure hope not but no, seriously, I haven’t been keeping them in business or not. It’s cool that they did that and maybe I’ll look into it. I don’t go to any news sites and nobody I know locally plays anything but sports crap and murder sims. Facebook and Twitter I have both quit. Forums like this are my only source of gaming news and apparently I’m massively out of the loop. I still use OEM systems and play real games like some dipshit from the 90s.
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