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Post by elmer on Jan 11, 2020 8:42:00 GMT
Nice to see another professional artist on the boards. I often (erroneously) assume most people who frequent these kind of places tend to be gamers/consumers more than creatives. I expect that you're right with that assumption ... in my experience, most long term pro-developers want to get *away* from games in their spare time. It took me years after my semi-retirement to get back any interest in consoles, and even longer to have the enduring love for one specific machine regain enough strength to actually work for free. This perception also came up on another forum, when a bunch of the forum's pro-developers (and ex-developers) commented on a thread, and basically said that most professionals really don't want to be "noticed" in order to avoid the attention of crazy fans. I'm probably lucky in that my work history was not popular enough to gain that kind of attention! One day I hope to pixel my very own PC-Engine HuCard game. Just way to busy right now to even dream of firing up a Pixel app. I was terribly excited by that Golden Axe effort Black Tiger et al. were working on many moons ago. Such a shame that fizzled out. It is very sad that OldRover got burned-out, and that the Golden Axe project seems to be stalled, it looked really excellent! I have my own dream-project for the PCE/SGX, but it is likely to stay just a dream until I can find professional-quality partners to contribute to the project. Someday I've really got to get back to porting one of my old games to the PCE (since I have the code and assets).
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Post by Arkhan on Jan 12, 2020 16:06:10 GMT
I don't understand the demo scene. Shouldn't pixel art be made for... games? its a way for people to show off neat hardware trickery and shit, basically from people who will never complete a game because they are more interested in showing off tricks that are often impractical for a game. and then you add in scrolly text to shout out to your homees, and a chiptune or two, and you now have literally every demo released for any computer lol. they are definitely neat (sometimes), but they are a completely different type of programming thing. There are a bunch of C64 ones from Cosine that were really neat to watch especially when they were new releases. We had about 3 demosceneish releases for PCE over the years. To be 100% honest, we don't need that shit here. It will just get peoples hopes up about possible game releases when people demo impractical effects/tricks that look cool but can't feasibly be done in the context of an actual game. People seem to understand that in say the C64 MSX or Amiga crowds, but on consoles, noone gets it. You release some crazy parallax demo that does layers out the ass, and people think oh shit, Aldynes 2 is almost done, just drop in some enemy sprites and more levels! Except no. lol. Anyways, use HuC with inline assembly as needed to feel out what you are doing. It's not that awful, especially if you understand assembly. It's better for rapid prototyping, fucking around, and laying out ideas. You can optimize the C-isms away as needed. ALSO, yeah we need more PCE musicians. I think I'm the only person who isn't doing Deflemask covers and is writing original music for the chip with the intent to use it in a project on the machine. Deflemask covers are neat but without a proper player, they are useless. Even then, in a commercial game, they are still useless. Not sure we need that many more artists. Artists have always outnumbered devs. lol but yay, more humans.
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Post by turboxray on Jan 12, 2020 19:58:45 GMT
<rambling about demoscene> I'm sure not every demoscene coder wants to make a game, or rather has the resources to make one (to their level of standards). I mean, outside of the super simple games that are totally doable and easily finish-able with a single person crew, not everyone desires to make games on a platform from game designs 2-3 generations back lol. Putting aside politics of the demoscene actually being a form of expression and art, and not only just pushing the system (a waste of time in some people opinions), things did came out of the demoscene that ended up being practical and used in-game after it became common place (sometimes platform specific stuff). That happened on the Amiga, C64, etc. Happened on the Genesis too (both commercially, and homebrew). Even if it's not everyone's thing, there's related content. Deflemask covers are neat but without a proper player, they are useless. Even then, in a commercial game, they are still useless. Why would it be commercially useless in a game? A proper player means a real decoding engine, not port streaming. Not sure if I missing something? Hahah nevermind, I read "they are still useless" as "it is still useless".
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Post by gredler on Jan 12, 2020 22:50:46 GMT
I am assuming he means covers are useless in a for profit production, not deflemask, since covers are typically a copywritten work
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Post by gredler on Jan 14, 2020 0:40:24 GMT
so we can get back to focussing on monstersgoboom's efforts I would love to see any more updates monstersgoboom! Is there another place we can follow updates to your work on?
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Post by Arkhan on Jan 14, 2020 6:35:17 GMT
lol the hilarious part is, he probably missed the whole blowout and probably has no idea it happened. That would be funny.
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Post by monstersgoboom on Jan 14, 2020 14:33:35 GMT
lol the hilarious part is, he probably missed the whole blowout and probably has no idea it happened. That would be funny. I've been following along I've been working on this a bit. though I've been distracted trying to find a suitable audio solution for my deflemask using buddy ( MML ain't it ) I tend to tweet out progress , though it's been slow, with real job and other projects. The amount of negativity here between some folks is just off the charts. There's so few people into PCE dev and honestly these posts are discouraging. there's so few folks into PCE stuff. I'd love to finish up this little game. it'd not a huge scope and never was supposed to be. but it seems like there's an active push from some folks to just walk away from the scene. This is supposed to be a fun little hobby, no one is going to try and compete with larger scope games. when we're doing it just for fun. All I did was ask about controller and audio issues with HuC . and this is the shit that happens ?
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Post by spenoza on Jan 14, 2020 14:53:08 GMT
I would like to apologize on behalf of the forum. This particular forum arose out of a drama-laden situation that imploded, and many of the folks here survived that situation, and it has left scars and a lot of baggage. We've been working on healing a while, but we have a lot more ground to cover. I've cleaned that drama out of this thread so we can get back on topic.
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Post by monstersgoboom on Jan 14, 2020 14:55:02 GMT
I would like to apologize on behalf of the forum. This particular forum arose out of a drama-laden situation that imploded, and many of the folks here survived that situation, and it has left scars and a lot of baggage. We've been working on healing a while, but we have a lot more ground to cover. I've cleaned that drama out of this thread so we can get back on topic. I apologise for accidentally stirring the pot.
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Post by spenoza on Jan 14, 2020 14:58:11 GMT
I apologise for accidentally stirring the pot. In Soviet PC Engine forums, pot stirs you! No, but seriously, you didn't stir the pot. I don't want you to feel like you have to post around invisible land-mines. This drama stirred itself. Just be aware that this has nothing to do with you and that none of the residual invective is directed at you. And we're all curious to see what you're working on, that's for sure.
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Post by Arkhan on Jan 14, 2020 15:01:09 GMT
I would like to apologize on behalf of the forum. This particular forum arose out of a drama-laden situation that imploded, and many of the folks here survived that situation, and it has left scars and a lot of baggage. We've been working on healing a while, but we have a lot more ground to cover. I've cleaned that drama out of this thread so we can get back on topic. I apologise for accidentally stirring the pot. dont worry about it. my bad for going apeshit in here. Alot of stuff has boiled over, and you're honestly lucky you just got here. You missed the real shitshow. This is like the special scenes that roll during the credits lol. Like spenoza said, this forum is the result of a blowout so bad an entire forum got deleted by a crazy admin. There are lots of other pockets and drama and dumb shit, and it's not your fault for not knowing. We like to help, but some of us also like to argue lol. In any event for music, your only option right now that actually works, is MML. None of the other things are functional AFAIK. I can assist with MML things, including telling you right now, your friend doing music shouldn't make music IN mml. Make it somewhere else, export the MIDI to 3MLE and get it going from there. Trying to do it in MML directly is going to make you want to set yourself on fire and run around screaming. I made a video or two awhile ago. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeZTqqN0FtMwww.youtube.com/watch?v=yy9gNPfTmgUMML and Squirrel have some limitations like no sampling, and some effects a tracker provides an easy interface for are a little goofier to implement (slides for example), but the system works, and every game we've ever released at Aetherbyte is using it to make noises. In the interest of doing music for a game, right now its your best choice because it is your only choice lol.
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Post by monstersgoboom on Jan 14, 2020 15:01:12 GMT
I apologise for accidentally stirring the pot. In Soviet PC Engine forums, pot stirs you! No, but seriously, you didn't stir the pot. I don't want you to feel like you have to post around invisible land-mines. This drama stirred itself. Just be aware that this has nothing to do with you and that none of the residual invective is directed at you. And we're all curious to see what you're working on, that's for sure. I understand though it does feel exactly like there are invisible land-mines. now I know not to ask about Audio
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Post by Arkhan on Jan 14, 2020 15:05:12 GMT
Ironically enough, audio has been the PCE scenes biggest pain in the ass since forever.
Back in the beforetimes, HuGo! the one emulator, didn't even have sound.
and Magic Engine's sound sucked.
and then the knockoff CD BIOS it used sounded all wonked out.
We have never enjoyed a period of time where audio wasn't some stupid problem.
IF you ask about what to do, you're going to get a pissing contest of opinions, but the current reality is nothing exists for you to use except Squirrel. I'd be happy if there were alternatives, but there aren't. This is probably because Squirrel was made with limitations and to mimic what was provided in the CD Bios. It's not trying to be a fully featured Deflemask replay engine, or MOD player. It's much more basic, but flexible enough for games. If you're not trying to go all "Switched on Bach" or something, the biggest hurdle is getting used to the lack of a tracker.
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Post by DarkKobold on Jan 14, 2020 16:21:24 GMT
lol the hilarious part is, he probably missed the whole blowout and probably has no idea it happened. That would be funny. I've been following along I've been working on this a bit. though I've been distracted trying to find a suitable audio solution for my deflemask using buddy ( MML ain't it ) I tend to tweet out progress , though it's been slow, with real job and other projects. The amount of negativity here between some folks is just off the charts. There's so few people into PCE dev and honestly these posts are discouraging. there's so few folks into PCE stuff. I'd love to finish up this little game. it'd not a huge scope and never was supposed to be. but it seems like there's an active push from some folks to just walk away from the scene. This is supposed to be a fun little hobby, no one is going to try and compete with larger scope games. when we're doing it just for fun. All I did was ask about controller and audio issues with HuC . and this is the shit that happens ?
No, usually this forum is incredibly helpful. Sound is one of the bigger long running issues however.
When we needed a better solution to doing tilemaps, elmer stepped in and gave us promotion support in HuC.
When we had slow down that required ASM, touko and dsahdoff stepped in and helped us get zsort.
Numerous other people have helped us get our games off the ground. Contact me privately if you want to see some of the stuff I can't share publicly.
When I asked about a C compiler in the SNESdev forums, I was told real snes enthusiasts learn ASM, and that really, homebrew is way overrated, so I should kindly f-off with my requests.
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Post by spenoza on Jan 14, 2020 16:31:09 GMT
One need only look at the Linux kernel mailing list. It makes one want to stab oneself in the eyes with hot needles.
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