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Post by dshadoff on Feb 12, 2019 5:06:35 GMT
I'm thinking of putting together a simple SNES-to-PC Engine joystick converter - something that you can plug in a SNES joypad/stick, and use on a PC Engine. ...Not because I think SNES joypads/sticks are great, but because these now exist, and most Bluetooth joysticks (Switch, PS4, etc.) can work with the receiver: Bluetooth JoypadAlso, the female connectors to facilitate this are not so hard to find: SNES controller socketActually, I breadboarded a conversion circuit to do exactly this back in 1991 (but only for 8-buttons), so I know it'll work. I just have to extend the circuit a bit. But I was hoping that somebody here might be interested in helping to convert it to a small PCB with possibly surface-mount parts. I haven't done that before. Would it be done with something like KiCAD ? Who could make the boards ? I just don't have any experience with that. I'm not interested in making any money off of it - I even don't mind if somebody else does... as long as I can get a couple (2 or 3) of these at cost. The parts list will use: - 1 x 555 timer - 3 x 74HC157 (only 1 needed if it's just 8 buttons) - 2 x 74HC595 (only 1 needed if it's just 8 buttons) - 1 x 74HC373 - a few passive components (resistors, capacitors) - possibly a switch for 2-button/6-button config - 8-pin mini-din plug (may need a short cable) - enclosure of some kind I'll have it breadboarded soon so I can show it working. ...One day, down the line, I think it would be cool to have a much more ambitious control box, running on a microcontroller and perhaps a simplistic FPGA to reduce parts count: - accepting, say, 4 bluetooth controllers - configurable for "multitap" or "no multitap" - accepting bluetooth and/or USB mouse, and emulating PCE mouse - able to emulate XHE-3 analog output - MB128 emulation - Develo emulation (or similar communication) via USB and/or bluetooth ...But that's a *long* way off. Right now, I just want something simple to play some games wirelessly (and I expect that there are other people who want the same thing). Dave
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TailChao
Gun-headed
I Must Eat Muffin Gear.
Posts: 68
Fave PCE Game Overall: Bonk's Adventure
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Post by TailChao on Feb 12, 2019 16:25:42 GMT
I don't have enough time to do another board layout, but can help point you in the right direction to do the design yourself. For layout I've used FreePCB for small (at home) projects, a good friend of mine lives by MBE. If you can afford OrCAD that's the best there is, and there's also KiCAD (as you listed) and Eagle. Fabrication has gotten much easier over the past few years, especially if you're patient. I usually use ITEAD but have also heard good things about Seeed Studio. Just upload your gerbers, transfer some money, and your boards will show up in a few weeks. I have some half done controller adapters for the TurboGrafx, but they're for FEKA stuff rather than SNES. Optional Avenue 6 support is a good feature to have on hand if you can manage to fit it.
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Post by spenoza on Feb 12, 2019 19:45:38 GMT
OK, but how are you going to handle turbo functions? The legacy of the PC Engine and TG-16 is that a not insignificant number of games really do require turbo for optimal play.
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Post by dshadoff on Feb 12, 2019 23:50:26 GMT
OK, but how are you going to handle turbo functions? The legacy of the PC Engine and TG-16 is that a not insignificant number of games really do require turbo for optimal play. You're right, a 74HC163 may be needed anyway, to manage the 74HC157 sequencing - this would also manage turbo. I just didn't want to have to think about adding a bunch of switches. Dave
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Post by spenoza on Feb 13, 2019 0:40:14 GMT
You really only need turbo on I and II. Too bad the SNES controller doesn’t have a couple extra buttons that could be turbo I and turbo II.
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Post by dshadoff on Mar 11, 2019 0:44:54 GMT
I got sidetracked and decided to go down the microcontroller rabbit hole... not so much for joystick conversion, but more to chase the protocols for the MB128.
While playing with Arduinos and Raspberry Pi's, I feel like there are problems with the most mainstream of these:
Arduino: most Arduinos interfaces directly with 5V logic (good) Very little program and data storage (bad) Need additional board to read/write external storage (bad) Possibly too slow to read all bits directly as 2 quick 4-bit reads; probably needs multiplexer (bad) Might be possible within a power envelope (good) Fairly low-level programming interface (neutral)
Raspberry Pi: 3.3V logic (bad) sufficient storage (good) SDCard built in (good)
Possibly fast enough to not need multiplexer chip (good) Only Pi Zero might live within power envelope (neutral-bad) easy to write to SDCard and/or other export (good)
So, I'm going to start with a datalogger shield for the Arduino Uno, only because it's reasonably common as a starting point, and doesn't require a bunch more hardware. But it's not something you'd consider for a finished unit (kind of ugly, and not so small).
Other options, once I have something working on that hardware:
Adafruit Feather M0 Adalogger: - very small and has a SDCard built in. - good program and storage space - reasonably quick CPU - seems to be plug-in to Arduino IDE - but will need level conversion between 3.3V and 5V - can run on a lithium battery, with recharge from USB (seamless transition)
Teensy 3.5: - small and has a SDCard built in - tons of program and storage space - fast CPU - compatible with Arduino IDE, but it's not clear what may be missing (seems more "on the edge") - 5V tolerant pins (but still needs up-shift for outputs to interface to CMOS logic)
I'm leaning toward eventually using the Adafruit, and just biting the bullet on additional level-shift logic.
Dave
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Post by theoldman on Mar 11, 2019 2:22:02 GMT
Velleman makes a dual 3.3/5v converter module that's relatively cheap (VMA410, ~$5 ). Not sure if it's fast enough, though I think it should be. Careful though - I've blown up 2 (double check and make sure 5V signals go to 5V inputs).
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Post by dshadoff on Mar 11, 2019 2:35:59 GMT
I might go that way after the breadboarding stage.
For step 1 (Arduino Uno + Datalogger shield with SDCard), I won't need level-shifting. When (if) I switch to the next type, I'll breadboard level-shift with 74AHCT125 (3.3V -> 5V) and 74LVC245 (5V -> 3.3V) before trying any of those "automatic" ones...
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Post by dshadoff on Jun 6, 2019 0:42:11 GMT
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keithcourage
Punkic Cyborg
https://www.facebook.com/turbografxfan/
Posts: 230
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Post by keithcourage on Jul 9, 2019 3:51:12 GMT
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Post by ClodBuster on Jul 16, 2019 13:34:27 GMT
Raphnet does have a variety of prebuilt controller adaptors for a wide range of videogame consoles and PC USB as well. He also sells circuits to build your own adaptors. PC Engine included. www.raphnet-tech.com/products/pc_engine_to_usb_adapter/index.phpwww.raphnet-tech.com/products/nes2usb/index.phpYou might want to contact him if he has any advice for building adaptors for connecting other console's controllers to the PC Engine. By the way, I've got that SNES style Hori Wireless Fighting Commander to use it with my Wii. I think it's quite a nice controller. I did not encounter noticeable input lag, even though there are two wireless connections going on - one from the Hori Controller to the receiver plugged into the Wii remote, and then to the Wii console itself. But had to bind the controller to its receiver by myself - it did not came prebound if I remember correctly.
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Post by dshadoff on Jul 16, 2019 21:41:09 GMT
I tried contacting somebody there about this, but never received a response. Also, the PC engine converters are to connect PCE controllers to PCs via USB, not to connect anything to the PCE (except the XHE-1 compatible adapter).
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Post by dshadoff on Sept 28, 2019 13:55:04 GMT
Coming back to this, I thought I'd update another category of microcontrollers for potential use: PIC microcontrollers
Pros: There is still a wide variety of these which run native 5V - so no need for level-shift Many are available with a lot of I/Os Quite inexpensive for the parts, on the whole - targeted fro manufacturing
Cons: Programming environment is *very* different from more modern setups - although in many ways, it resembles the old systems like PC Engine, with its limitations/workarounds Some additional one-time equipment purchase is basically necessary, for programming the chips (although this doesn't have to be expensive) Between the variety of chips and programmers, and the less-than-100% compatibility among the permutations, selecting your tools/parts can be tedious Be careful about parts selection, to ensure 5V use, reprogrammability, and debug functionality (if required) - as these aren't all necessarily on all parts Limited program space and memory space, and peripheral functionality - though these may not be needed, depending on the application
Basically, if you're just remapping an old Sega Genesis 6-button controller to PC Engine, this is the ideal setup. You don't need much, but it would be hellish to do with discrete parts. If you're planning on doing Bluetooth, this probably isn't going to be ideal. If you're planning to remap a SNES Mini (I2C) controller... the jury is still out. Some devices may have that capability, but it will take specific parts, and some effort.
Programming these things looks to about as hard as HuC/PCE Assembler... not the end of the world, but certainly not Arduino-easy. You just need to learn and remember a series of details.
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Post by doublehacker on Oct 25, 2019 17:24:43 GMT
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Post by dshadoff on Oct 29, 2019 1:16:30 GMT
Well, that's interesting. But I'm not sure what went wrong in his device.
I'll start with Sega controllers, and probably move on to the SNES Mini (I2C) controllers - I'm pretty sure you'll get to SNES controllers before I do.
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