|
|
Post by soop on Aug 9, 2018 10:35:18 GMT
I hadn't realised initially that R-Type was released in the US as one game, which changes my opinion somewhat. In Japan, the game was released on two separate HuCards - for reasons I'm unaware of. Still, R-type was a hugely important game for the PC Engine. It demonstrated that one of the most popular arcade games of the time could be ported almost flawlessly on the system, and was a real head turner compared to every other system, even as an early release. Heck, even Super R-Type (again an early release) on the ostensibly more powerful Super Nintendo struggled mightily to render the game without significant slowdown (though in fairness, the excellent and later R-Type III would indicate that this was down to familiarity with the machine aside from anything else). So historically, R-type has given us a lot to be thankful for, including tropes that have persisted to this day, like the invincible Force Bit (Option), the use of which is key to mastering the game. Personally, I admire a lot about the original R-type, but I'm not enthralled with its plodding pace, or its difficulty. I think it's one of those titles that suffers too much from being the type of arcade games that's great for munching quarters, and also a very appealing thing to play in the arcade for a few minutes, but it lacks a lot of things that makes a great home title that you want to spend £40 and get your moneys worth. Still, it does get points for the nearness to the original.
Sonson II is something of a hidden gem, a very polished Capcom platformer that was slightly ahead of its time. It combines sprawling maps, secrets and RPG elements to a solid and fun platforming game, and it's the kind of game you can go back to time and again and have a very different experience depending on your choices - if you try and run through as fast as possible, you'll miss out on the majority of the game. It's also the kind of game that lends itself well to maps. From my experience with it, I think the boss fights could be a bit more inventive, but otherwise, I love this game. The main theme of it seems to be set around the legend of the Monkey King (aka Journey to the West), as seen by the titular hero (Monkey) and some of the support characters appearing. Graphics are nice, if some of the backgrounds are a little sparse, and the music is very jolly. I'm glad this made it to the top 64, and it's a little sad it's come against R-Type, since I think it could easily lose out due to not being as well known. Do yourself a favour and put this game on your list, it's very good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Black_Tiger on Aug 9, 2018 13:43:29 GMT
R-Type for TG-16 also has less flicker, as they dialed back the resolution a bit.
The HuCard versions were released so early that the fast rom chip memory that HuCards use was still too expensive.
Super R-Type and other launch window SNES games are reported to have suffered from extra slowdown because only slower than normal rom chips were available at the time.
Both Super R-Type and R-Type III were tailor made for the SNES hardware. R-Type III actually makes the hardware seem even weaker, as it moves extremely slow at full speed and trickles very few small sprites at a time, with minimal variety, minimal animation and collision. R-Type for SMS moves faster and tosses around much more sprites.
The notion that the SNES balanced out its cpu with other built-in "helper" chips is a myth. The extra hardware does things like Mode 7 and translucenies, which it's best at. The hardware really is very weak at running 16-bit era "action" and most SNES/SFC shooters struggle to handle as much action as some SMS, Game Gear and NES shooters.
Although I love Black Tiger, Son Son II feels unconfortable to me. I recognize the appeal, but it just isn't appealing to me. R-Type is one of my favorites games.
|
|
|
|
Post by soop on Aug 9, 2018 13:59:27 GMT
Thanks BT, good info The notion that the SNES balanced out its cpu with other built-in "helper" chips is a myth. The extra hardware does things like Mode 7 and translucenies, which it's best at. The hardware really is very weak at running 16-bit era "action" and most SNES/SFC shooters struggle to handle as much action as some SMS, Game Gear and NES shooters. Was it due to the clockspeed of the CPE, or the bus? Still, I think 3rd Lightning is a much better game because it plays to the SNES's strengths (while we're on the subject). In fact the second part of R-type 1 and the PSP R-type are the only games I don't have (apart from Leo obviously), and I think 3rd Lightning, Delta and Final are the better R-types |
|
|
|
Post by lukester on Aug 9, 2018 14:04:37 GMT
Okay, Black Tiger? Again, what does pooping on the snes have to do with talking about a pc engine game. It’s so unprompted when you do it I voted for SonSon II. I think both games are great though I lean more towards platformers. It’s also one of the closest games to Megaman on the system...though it is like “Black Tiger” It is also a tricky game, here’s the excellent fan site! www.changevworld.com/sonson2/sonson2.htm |
|
|
|
Post by soop on Aug 9, 2018 14:11:38 GMT
Okay, Black Tiger? Again, what does pooping on the snes have to do with talking about a pc engine game. It’s so unprompted when you do it In fairness, I did bring it up - mainly to illustrate that at the time, the PC Engine version was very significant as an "arcade game in your home" kind of deal. TBH tho, I think BT is just stating facts, he's not really dumping on the snes per se. I voted for SonSon II. I think both games are great though I lean more towards platformers. It’s also one of the closest games to Megaman on the system...though it is like “Black Tiger” It is also a tricky game, here’s the excellent fan site! www.changevworld.com/sonson2/sonson2.htmNice, I plan to replay it with those maps, I think it would make a lot of difference! |
|
|
|
Post by Galahad on Aug 9, 2018 14:58:54 GMT
R-Type as it's one of my favorite shmups.
|
|
majors
Punkic Cyborg
Have cabs, will travel
Posts: 155
Fave PCE Shooter: Parodius
Fave PCE Platformer: Legendary Axe
Fave PCE Game Overall: Spriggian
Fave PCE RPG: Ys
|
Post by majors on Aug 9, 2018 16:56:51 GMT
Okay, Black Tiger? Again, what does pooping on the snes have to do with talking about a pc engine game. It’s so unprompted when you do it I don't mind...it's why i login into a PCE/TG-16 forum. If I wanted weebs circle jerking off to nintendo, I'd visit NA. Of course I do not hide my disdain for Maroi and his fans. Back on conversation, R-type any day, all day. SS2 is okay for a $5-10 platformer but R-type is a must have for turbo. If you're not a fan of shmups, well you might have gotten into the wrong console. |
|
|
|
Post by Black_Tiger on Aug 9, 2018 18:11:30 GMT
Okay, Black Tiger? Again, what does pooping on the snes have to do with talking about a pc engine game. It’s so unprompted when you do it I voted for SonSon II. I think both games are great though I lean more towards platformers. It’s also one of the closest games to Megaman on the system...though it is like “Black Tiger” It is also a tricky game, here’s the excellent fan site! www.changevworld.com/sonson2/sonson2.htmYou keep talking about how the second best Bonk game is on par with Mario and Sonic and often relate PCE games to SNES games in general. soop is the one who brought up Super R-Type and R-Type III and the misconceptions of the SNES hardware and launch games. Classic gaming fans who appreciate more than one console find the details behind this stuff interesting. I'm not pooping on the SNES, I'm defending the launch line up. There are rom hacks out there which make those SNES launch games access the rom chips at "fast rom" speed. So you can experience them running at full SNES speed, which is about a third faster. Super Gradius III is an example if a SNES shooter that actually pushes a lot. I keep foretting to find those hacks, but I really want to play through Gradius III at full speed. Staying on topic with soop's opening post, keeping things in perspective makes you fully appreciate how special R-Type is on Turbo/PCE. That "rushed" port of Super R-Type was released 9 months after the Super Famicom and after devs had 4 years experience working on 16-bit console games. R-Type PCE was released 5 months after the PC Engine, which was also 5 months into the generation and only 8 months after the arcade original.. Aside from unavoidable flicker and superior audio, the main difference between the arcade and PCE performance-wise is that the PC Engine version has less slowdown. It was the console's killer app and history would have been much different without it. I'm just glad that the TG-16 brought us a complete version, so we're not stuck having to replace the redbook tracks of 'Complete with recordings of the HuCard soundtrack. |
|
|
|
Post by Galahad on Aug 9, 2018 20:36:43 GMT
I enjoy when someone has technical knowledge of hardware and explains some of it,makes for an interesting read and I learn.
|
|
|
|
Post by nectarsis on Aug 11, 2018 4:26:36 GMT
This has been by far the hardest choice for me in these polls. R-Type edges it for me partially on what was pulled off on an "inferior" system so early in its life cycle......though SSII is a DAMN great game.
|
|
|
|
Post by soop on Aug 11, 2018 17:40:44 GMT
This has been by fa the hardest choice for me in tese polls. R-Type edges it for me partially on what was pulled off on an "inferior" system so early in its life cycle......though SSII is a DAMN great game. Sonson II is a REALLY good game, it just doesn't have the rockstar appealof R-Type. R-Type is more important, but I'd be interested to know how many here have spent decent time with both games and which way those votes went |
|
