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Post by tron on Dec 11, 2020 9:45:32 GMT
With the recent game awards a new ghost'n'goblins has been announced and another arcade compilation.
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Post by sunteam_paul on Dec 12, 2020 14:08:24 GMT
Ghosts 'n Goblins looks good in stills but once it moves, the animation is really crappy and ruins the whole look.
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DutchDimension
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 122
Homebrew skills: Pixel, 2D and 3D art
Fave PCE Shooter: Override
Fave PCE Platformer: Mizbak's Adventure
Fave PCE Game Overall: Too many to choose from
Fave PCE RPG: Ys series
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Post by DutchDimension on Dec 12, 2020 14:29:32 GMT
For me it's the lousy 'clip-art' art style that kills it. It doesn't do it for me at all. I need to see pixels!
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Post by tron on Dec 13, 2020 9:07:36 GMT
For me it's the lousy 'clip-art' art style that kills it. It doesn't do it for me at all. I need to see pixels! For modern developers either they don't have the talent any more or they don't like putting in the effort to do so for using pixels.
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DutchDimension
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 122
Homebrew skills: Pixel, 2D and 3D art
Fave PCE Shooter: Override
Fave PCE Platformer: Mizbak's Adventure
Fave PCE Game Overall: Too many to choose from
Fave PCE RPG: Ys series
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Post by DutchDimension on Dec 13, 2020 10:02:29 GMT
For me it's the lousy 'clip-art' art style that kills it. It doesn't do it for me at all. I need to see pixels! For modern developers either they don't have the talent any more or they don't like putting in the effort to do so for using pixels. I think that certainly plays a role. I also think that there is a certain type of (modern) gamer that doesn't understand pixel art. They tend to see it as 'bad quality', or too 'low res'. So some developers might shy away from it for fear of negative feedback.
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Post by tron on Dec 13, 2020 10:14:22 GMT
For modern developers either they don't have the talent any more or they don't like putting in the effort to do so for using pixels. I think that certainly plays a role. I also think that there is a certain type of (modern) gamer that doesn't understand pixel art. They tend to see it as 'bad quality', or too 'low res'. So some developers might shy away from it for fear of negative feedback. I don't have a problem with 2.5d when done right but this new gng looks like capcom isn't even trying.Perfect example where it looks good is arc system works and what there doing with the next guilty gear.
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esteban
Gun-headed
GOMOLA SPEED or GO HOME.
Posts: 94
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Post by esteban on Dec 13, 2020 18:00:32 GMT
I will be honest: I think most of it looks OK, but the main character design Arthur (especially when he is sans-armor) is UNACCEPTABLE (lame/uninspired). I feel like this is an example of how TWEAKS to the character design(s) would make *all the difference* for me: not every character needs to be super-unique, but a certain THRESHOLD (varies by game) of assets need to have personality/flavor. A game/film/illustration can achieve 85% "OK" aesthetics, but will still register as an overall "failure" for me... FIX ARTHUR. First boss seems OK to me? Your thoughts? I have only watched the video (thrice) that iron posted. I am afraid that if I zoomed in on the footage some designs would look even uglier.
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Post by tron on Dec 14, 2020 8:13:56 GMT
I will be honest: I think most of it looks OK, but the main character design Arthur (especially when he is sans-armor) is UNACCEPTABLE (lame/uninspired). I feel like this is an example of how TWEAKS to the character design(s) would make *all the difference* for me: not every character needs to be super-unique, but a certain THRESHOLD (varies by game) of assets need to have personality/flavor. A game/film/illustration can achieve 85% "OK" aesthetics, but will still register as an overall "failure" for me... FIX ARTHUR. First boss seems OK to me? Your thoughts? I have only watched the video (thrice) that iron posted. I am afraid that if I zoomed in on the footage some designs would look even uglier. Most you can hope for that it plays well last time capcom did anything for the series was ultimate ghouls'n'ghost for psp.I think capcom should have went with the cell shading like they did for mega man 11.
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Post by gredler on Dec 17, 2020 18:47:19 GMT
I agree, looks not great in motion I think the animation looks poor because it's marionette style rigged pixel art. It doesn't have the squash/stretch hand drawn frame-by-frame animation has, so it looks like puppets on strings rather than the traditional animation. The lighting also doesn't apply accurately because they have asymmetrically lit everything and then with the marionette style animation they rotate these lit elements, so the highlight moves away from a centralized light source.
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Post by spenoza on Dec 17, 2020 19:39:21 GMT
Some games managed to pull that kind of animation off, VanillaWare for example, but this does not look like a great example of that.
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Post by tron on Dec 18, 2020 7:30:06 GMT
Some games managed to pull that kind of animation off, VanillaWare for example, but this does not look like a great example of that. I second that.
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esteban
Gun-headed
GOMOLA SPEED or GO HOME.
Posts: 94
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Post by esteban on Dec 18, 2020 17:48:31 GMT
I agree, looks not great in motion I think the animation looks poor because it's marionette style rigged pixel art. It doesn't have the squash/stretch hand drawn frame-by-frame animation has, so it looks like puppets on strings rather than the traditional animation. The lighting also doesn't apply accurately because they have asymmetrically lit everything and then with the marionette style animation they rotate these lit elements, so the highlight moves away from a centralized light source. Yes, you identified so many elements that are "off"... I'm going to watch more videos.... but MARIONETTE/PUPPET would be OK for a different game, but not for Arthur....unless it's PAPER ARTHUR PAPER ARTHUR (PAPER MARIO) could actually be a fun creative concept... but would require creative effort for Capcom/outsourced developer.
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Post by spenoza on Dec 18, 2020 18:07:32 GMT
Let's also note that a lot of those marionette-style titles, especially those that proliferate on mobile, have all sorts of squash and stretch. And it's crazy unnatural the way the characters seem to perpetually bubble and bounce because nobody bothered to carefully oversee coherent animation.
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Post by Mathius on Dec 19, 2020 1:53:31 GMT
Iconic 2D characters and their animations in a pixel based world don't translate to modern game design in most cases. Dracula X on PSP is a notable example. Trevor Belmont had the gait of a man on a mission in the original Super CD ver., but being animated with polygons he looked like he just left a corn cob convention.
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esteban
Gun-headed
GOMOLA SPEED or GO HOME.
Posts: 94
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Post by esteban on Dec 19, 2020 6:50:45 GMT
Iconic 2D characters and their animations in a pixel based world don't translate to modern game design in most cases. Dracula X on PSP is a notable example. Trevor Belmont had the gait of a man on a mission in the original Super CD ver., but being animated with polygons he looked like he just left a corn cob convention. You had me at "Belmont's Cob"
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