bonkzonkmcgonk
Gun-headed
Posts: 54
Fave PCE Shooter: Air Zonk
Fave PCE Platformer: Dragon's Curse
Fave PCE Game Overall: Bonk's Adventure & Revenge
Fave PCE RPG: Legend of Valkyrie
Currently Playing: Son Son II
|
Post by bonkzonkmcgonk on Oct 11, 2021 3:06:13 GMT
Was Keith Courage really the best game that NEC could offer for your first taste of the Turbo? Or it was giving it away for free the only way that they could get rid of all the unsold copies of this mediocre game?
They should've had Bomberman as the pack-in title. That would have made a lot more sense, seeing as he was one of the main Turbo mascots.
I imagine kids opening presents for Christmas in the 90s - Mommy I got a Super Mario player! Mommy I got a Sonic the Hedgehog player! Mommy...I got... Keith Courage... *sigh*
|
|
|
Post by dshadoff on Oct 11, 2021 4:09:05 GMT
NEC has a weird marketing strategy. I have heard that in many cases, decisions for the USA were made in Japan, by people who knew nothing about the USA. So, the choices of what games could come here were generally not good decisions until NEC Home Electronics wasn't running the show anymore, and TTi took over... but by then it was too late.
Keith Courage was probably the first game they finished localizing.
Then they had a series of games which had no hope of driving sales of the system: Drop Off Deep Blue Timeball ... it got better after a while, but it took time. These were games the Japanese management thought "suited American tastes".
|
|
|
Post by turboxray on Oct 11, 2021 5:41:09 GMT
Mommy??? What hahah.
I was teen when the TG16 hit the shelves. I never got the whole pack-in argument. I'll admit that Sonic and Super World were pretty great pack-ins, but before that - the pack-in game was ALWAYS kinda generic. SMB? I was not hype that it was a pack-in. I had fun with it, but ehh. Altered Beast? Even more of a generic game than SMB. Keith Courage was no different. They were just bonus for when all you had was two other games for those first couple of months.
I got a TG16 in beginning of 1990 (I didn't get it in '89 when it was released), and I'll say this for Keith Courage.. it was amazing graphically compared to anything I had on my NES. I continued to buy/play NES games while I had my TG and Genny, but I literally was convinced Keith Courage was running at a higher res than any NES game. It was just so clear and detailed haha.. and wow the colors! Maybe because I had some limited experience with pixel art at the time. I dunno. But before Sonic and SMW were a pack-in thing, pack-ins just weren't something to get excited about. I'm not sure what else you're going to have as a pack-in in 1989. Some have said Blazing Lazers.. but shmups were definitely not as popular as platformers. I don't think it would have had mass appeal. The original Bomberman??? Nooo way. I'll take Keith Courage over that game any day. I also never liked China Warrior. I've never even beaten the game, and I've pretty finished everything I had for the TG16 back in the day.
Pretty sure by the time Sonic was a pack-in for the Genesis, Keith Courage was not a pack for the TG16? Wasn't it Bonk?
|
|
Gaijin D
Punkic Cyborg
Yare yare da ze.
Posts: 136
|
Post by Gaijin D on Oct 11, 2021 5:46:51 GMT
|
|
bonkzonkmcgonk
Gun-headed
Posts: 54
Fave PCE Shooter: Air Zonk
Fave PCE Platformer: Dragon's Curse
Fave PCE Game Overall: Bonk's Adventure & Revenge
Fave PCE RPG: Legend of Valkyrie
Currently Playing: Son Son II
|
Post by bonkzonkmcgonk on Oct 11, 2021 10:58:43 GMT
Mommy??? What hahah. I was teen when the TG16 hit the shelves. I never got the whole pack-in argument. I'll admit that Sonic and Super World were pretty great pack-ins, but before that - the pack-in game was ALWAYS kinda generic. SMB? I was not hype that it was a pack-in. I had fun with it, but ehh. Altered Beast? Even more of a generic game than SMB. Keith Courage was no different. They were just bonus for when all you had was two other games for those first couple of months.
I think the biggest problem with Keith Courage in Alpha Zones was the fact that it's called "Keith Courage in Alpha Zones". That and the overworld stages, which you play a little pinnocchio puppet dork wielding a sewing needle and stabbing flying lucky cats. And every time you stab them, you hear a fart noise. Definitely not "cool".
If the game were re-titled and you just left in the underworld stages, it would be much better.
Also, while I agree the graphics for Keith Courage are good for the time, Super Mario Bros is a waaaaaaaaaaaaay better game (not graphically better of course but better overall gameplay wise). And it was 2 player, so it encouraged more people to play. Plus the NES had that 3-in-1 pack in title, which had SMB, Duck Hunt and Track & Field. You had games for the whole family right there. And Altered Beast, while it wasn't a perfect game, was much cooler than Keith Courage. You could turn into a beast! What kid wouldn't want to do that?
A much better pack in title would be Legendary Axe. That was an excellent game that showed off the power of the Turbo.
|
|
|
Post by ginoscope on Oct 11, 2021 14:00:19 GMT
A much better pack in title would be Legendary Axe. That was an excellent game that showed off the power of the Turbo.
I definitely agree that Legendary Axe would have been a much better pack in game. I got my turbo in the summer of 1990 and I had no issues with Keith Courage. I still enjoy playing it to this day.
|
|
pokun
Gun-headed
Posts: 85
Homebrew skills: HuC6280 assembly
|
Post by pokun on Oct 11, 2021 17:03:09 GMT
Super Mario Bros was the game that sold the Famicom and the NES single-handedly so it definitely wasn't considered generic by most people (sales numbers should give a hint). It was certainly the game that got my eyes up for the NES. It was also not always a pack-in, we got our NES with the Ice Climber pack-in before they starting making SMB a multicart pack-in with Duck Hunt and other games, and in Japan it wasn't one of the launch titles 1983. Mario made everyone think that a platform mascot was necessary, and is what made Sega to make Sonic by combining Mickey Mouse and Felix the Cat as a weapon against Mario. I guess since there were so few platform games available at the time, as Bonk wasn't released yet they took whatever they had and tried to make something of it. NEC didn't know much about videogames though, that's why they needed Hudson in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by turboxray on Oct 11, 2021 19:42:07 GMT
Super Mario Bros was the game that sold the Famicom and the NES single-handedly so it definitely wasn't considered generic by most people (sales numbers should give a hint). It was certainly the game that got my eyes up for the NES. It was also not always a pack-in, we got our NES with the Ice Climber pack-in before they starting making SMB a multicart pack-in with Duck Hunt and other games, and in Japan it wasn't one of the launch titles 1983. Mario made everyone think that a platform mascot was necessary, and is what made Sega to make Sonic by combining Mickey Mouse and Felix the Cat as a weapon against Mario. I guess since there were so few platform games available at the time, as Bonk wasn't released yet they took whatever they had and tried to make something of it. NEC didn't know much about videogames though, that's why they needed Hudson in the first place. Then it was definitely different here in the States, or at least in the city where I lived. Single handedly? If you mean pre-packin, then sure, but post packin? You could not give that game away in my city, after it became a packin. Nobody talked about it. SMB2? Yes. SMB3? Insanely so. Even titles at the time like Zelda 1, Megaman 1, Contra, Metroid, etc when SMB was a packin.. kids were crazy for those games. When SMB became a pack in, you could buy SMB loose for like $3 in my city.. no exaggerating (I know this because I used to take the PCBs out of the SMB carts). SMB packin on the NES is nothing like Sonic pack-in on the Genesis. When Sonic was a pack-in for the Genesis, it was still amazing.. and continued to be amazing for years even after the sequels came out. SMB was quickly overshadowed IMO, unlike SMB2 and SMB3. I might have been a teen when TG16 came out, but I was still in grade school when I got my NES.
|
|
|
Post by spenoza on Oct 11, 2021 19:53:02 GMT
I don't think any of that takes away from the impact the original Super Mario Bros had on the market in Japan and the US. Sure, it became a title nobody would pay anything for, but that's in part because of just how many consoles it moved with. Sure, the NES had lots of reasons to sell well, but SMB definitely, inarguably moved units. And it also stands the test of time. Why do you think SMB99 on Switch Online was such phenomenon?
|
|
|
Post by dshadoff on Oct 11, 2021 20:40:11 GMT
All this talk aside, there really wasn’t a decent title available Stateside at launch. Legendary Axe came out quite a bit later, but yes, it would have been a great pack-in (but would also have dramatically cut software sales as it was one of few decent HuCards in the early days).
|
|
bonkzonkmcgonk
Gun-headed
Posts: 54
Fave PCE Shooter: Air Zonk
Fave PCE Platformer: Dragon's Curse
Fave PCE Game Overall: Bonk's Adventure & Revenge
Fave PCE RPG: Legend of Valkyrie
Currently Playing: Son Son II
|
Post by bonkzonkmcgonk on Oct 11, 2021 20:41:29 GMT
SMB 1 alone did not sell the NES system in the USA, but it was usually the first game that everybody played. The first video game I ever saw or played was SMB 2 in 1988 / 89. I got SMB 1 after that. Both of course are classic games that I liked playing often.
In contrast, Keith Courage is the game I only grudgingly played when I got tired of playing Bonk's Adventure and Revenge over and over.
|
|
|
Post by spenoza on Oct 11, 2021 21:07:15 GMT
SMB 1 alone did not sell the NES system in the USA It absolutely did. SMB was released in the US in limited release possibly as early as 1985, but definitely to widespread release by 1986. It didn't become the pack-in title until 1987 or 1988 (I'm finding different information on this). The title sold gangbusters and reviewed extremely well and was part of the reason the NES sold so quickly in the US. It was elevated to pack-in title to ensure strong console sales once the title had time to sell independently. i was 9-11 years old in the midst of this mess and I can tell you that however interesting some of the other NES titles were in those early years of the system, Super Mario Brothers was the single most compelling reason to own an NES and it singularly sold an incredible number of kids (and by proxy their parents) on the NES. It is quite hard to overestimate the impact of SMB1, and quite easy to underestimate it. That is of course quite off-topic to KC being the TG16 pack-in.
|
|
|
Post by DarkKobold on Oct 11, 2021 22:57:43 GMT
Wasn't altered beast also very successful as an arcade game? I can see wanting to pack it in if it was already well-known. It also had the China Warrior-esque giant sprites, which everyone was going for.
|
|
bonkzonkmcgonk
Gun-headed
Posts: 54
Fave PCE Shooter: Air Zonk
Fave PCE Platformer: Dragon's Curse
Fave PCE Game Overall: Bonk's Adventure & Revenge
Fave PCE RPG: Legend of Valkyrie
Currently Playing: Son Son II
|
Post by bonkzonkmcgonk on Oct 11, 2021 23:44:25 GMT
SMB 1 alone did not sell the NES system in the USA It absolutely did. SMB was released in the US in limited release possibly as early as 1985, but definitely to widespread release by 1986. It didn't become the pack-in title until 1987 or 1988 (I'm finding different information on this). The title sold gangbusters and reviewed extremely well and was part of the reason the NES sold so quickly in the US. It was elevated to pack-in title to ensure strong console sales once the title had time to sell independently. i was 9-11 years old in the midst of this mess and I can tell you that however interesting some of the other NES titles were in those early years of the system, Super Mario Brothers was the single most compelling reason to own an NES and it singularly sold an incredible number of kids (and by proxy their parents) on the NES. It is quite hard to overestimate the impact of SMB1, and quite easy to underestimate it. That is of course quite off-topic to KC being the TG16 pack-in. The original Super Mario sold the NES when it was new. But from 1986 on you had games like Zelda, Metroid, Punch Out, Mega Man, and Mario 2 & 3 released. There were plenty of other reasons to get an NES than SMB 1. Not that SMB 1 isn't a great game because it is.
|
|
|
Post by spenoza on Oct 12, 2021 13:27:35 GMT
Of course SMB1 didn't keep selling the system its entire market life, but SMB1 was THE killer app for the early NES.
|
|