nicole
Gun-headed
Posts: 50
Fave PCE Shooter: Magical Chase
Fave PCE Platformer: Legendary Axe II
Fave PCE RPG: Ys III
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Post by nicole on May 17, 2021 14:54:52 GMT
Fatal Fury 2 /special is a decent port, definitely worth getting if you have arcade card I'll also mention Art of Fighting, if only for the zooming effect and giant sprites. Some real skill went into that port, Hudson Soft at the top of their game.
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Post by spenoza on May 17, 2021 15:25:13 GMT
Fatal Fury 2 /special is a decent port, definitely worth getting if you have arcade card I'll also mention Art of Fighting, if only for the zooming effect and giant sprites. Some real skill went into that port, Hudson Soft at the top of their game. I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that Hudson actually contracted SNK themselves to help with these ports to ensure they were quality. If that is indeed the case that would explain a lot.
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gilbot
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 137
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Post by gilbot on May 17, 2021 17:41:34 GMT
The 4 SNK Arcade Card fighting games are straight ports.
Hudson Soft helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD and in exchange, SNK gave them the original source code of these 4 games (not unlike how in some foreign universe Philips helped Nintendo design their best selling Play Station CD ROM system and in exchange Nintendo granted Philips free use of all their intellectual properties) so these games were converted directly from their original (68k) source and were reproduced with nearly all the behaviour and game logic as close as possible to the originals.
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nicole
Gun-headed
Posts: 50
Fave PCE Shooter: Magical Chase
Fave PCE Platformer: Legendary Axe II
Fave PCE RPG: Ys III
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Post by nicole on May 17, 2021 18:06:55 GMT
The 4 SNK Arcade Card fighting games are straight ports. Hudson Soft helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD and in exchange, SNK gave them the original source code of these 4 games ( not unlike how in some foreign universe Philips helped Nintendo design their best selling Play Station CD ROM system and in exchange Nintendo granted Philips free use of all their intellectual properties) so these games were converted directly from their original (68k) source and were reproduced with nearly all the behaviour and game logic as close as possible to the originals. Interesting! I always assumed that they were solely Hudson Soft because the music remixes in Fatal Fury 2 don't match the arranged versions on the Neo Geo CD.
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Post by spenoza on May 17, 2021 18:10:50 GMT
The 4 SNK Arcade Card fighting games are straight ports. Hudson Soft helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD and in exchange, SNK gave them the original source code of these 4 games ( not unlike how in some foreign universe Philips helped Nintendo design their best selling Play Station CD ROM system and in exchange Nintendo granted Philips free use of all their intellectual properties) so these games were converted directly from their original (68k) source and were reproduced with nearly all the behaviour and game logic as close as possible to the originals.
Do you have a source for this? I'd really like to read more about this. I had no idea Hudson helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD, especially since the PC Engine CD was much more NEC than Hudson. Hudson didn't actually have as much CD hardware experience, AFAIK.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 18:20:38 GMT
The 4 SNK Arcade Card fighting games are straight ports. Hudson Soft helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD and in exchange, SNK gave them the original source code of these 4 games ( not unlike how in some foreign universe Philips helped Nintendo design their best selling Play Station CD ROM system and in exchange Nintendo granted Philips free use of all their intellectual properties) so these games were converted directly from their original (68k) source and were reproduced with nearly all the behaviour and game logic as close as possible to the originals. They couldn't have gotten Metal Slug along with that?
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Post by spenoza on May 17, 2021 22:24:53 GMT
They couldn't have gotten Metal Slug along with that? I’m pretty sure that’s outside the range of what’s technologically feasible for the PC Engine. I just don’t see it ever working out.
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gilbot
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 137
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Post by gilbot on May 18, 2021 1:25:46 GMT
Do you have a source for this? I'd really like to read more about this. I had no idea Hudson helped SNK design the Neo Geo CD, especially since the PC Engine CD was much more NEC than Hudson. Hudson didn't actually have as much CD hardware experience, AFAIK. I forgot where I read it from, but footnote #3 of the Wikipedia page of the Arcade Card has a mention, roughly translated to: SNK, the original producer of these games, not only granted permission for the ports, but also provided the internal data (i.e. original source) of these titles. That's because at that time, when SNK planned to distribute their games in CD-ROM with the NeoGeo CD, they seek the know-how in producing CD-ROMs from Hudson Soft in exchange of the source of these games (it's not clear what they helped SNK with, but this definitely included the software part and may or may not involved the hardware part). That, being Wikipedia, and it lacks citation, so take it whatever you want. However, there is NO doubt that Hudson Soft acquired the original source of these games (or, at least for Art of Fighting) and worked from there, as the source of the original game (and other goodies) appeared in the data track of the PCE CD of Art of Fighting.
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Post by spenoza on May 18, 2021 1:38:55 GMT
Cool. Thanks for elucidating. I suspect they probably lent software support for programming to CD, like overlays such. But I’m just guessing.
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gilbot
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 137
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Post by gilbot on May 18, 2021 2:41:46 GMT
(Again) If Wikipedia is to be trusted, Metal Slug was released in 1996, whereas the Arcade Card came out in 1994, so the reason is obvious.
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Post by SignOfZeta on May 18, 2021 13:06:55 GMT
(Again) If Wikipedia is to be trusted, Metal Slug was released in 1996, whereas the Arcade Card came out in 1994, so the reason is obvious. The PCE was effectively dead by the time MS1 hit the arcades. Metal Slug on PCE would have been a post-Sapphire release. It would have landed the same time as the Saturn one and made zero money. I do wonder if the loading would have been better though...the Neo CD Slugs load multiple times per level and it sucks. Until now I had never heard about the SNK/Hudson team up. Perhaps it’s true. I remember when Dengeki PCE (or maybe PCE Fan) used to fill up the back part of their magazine with Neo coverage once the arcade card became a thing. They likely saw each other as allies since they shared the most hardcore (richest) section of game fandom back then, and both systems seemed to defy the odds by outlasting the Megadrive despite only selling a fraction as many games. I do have to wonder though, why did they need Hudson’s help to make a Neo CD? SNK had a bunch of hardware dudes back then and CDROM was common. Can we blame the fact that the Neo CD kinda sucked on Hudson? Also, do we know for sure that SNK never gave the source to Takara? I’m going to stick with the basic idea that the PCE ports of SNK games are the best because Hudson made them.
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Post by SignOfZeta on May 18, 2021 13:12:47 GMT
Fatal Fury 2 /special is a decent port, definitely worth getting if you have arcade card I'll also mention Art of Fighting, if only for the zooming effect and giant sprites. Some real skill went into that port, Hudson Soft at the top of their game. I agree. People dump on it because it doesn’t scale properly but a) the SNES and MD ones didn’t scale at all and b) once in the heat of the game it’s not distracting. It being two modes means it’s less nauseating than some fighters that do scroll properly.
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gilbot
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 137
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Post by gilbot on May 18, 2021 16:07:33 GMT
I do wonder if the loading would have been better though...the Neo CD Slugs load multiple times per level and it sucks. Considering that the Neogeo CD has much more RAM (just checked, it has 56 Mbit compared to 18 Mbit of the Arcade Card system) than the Arcade Card system, so even if you do a lot of optimisations/compressions and cut a lot of corners it may not help much. (This is just speculation though, as I guess the graphics/sound/whatever data on the NGCD are possibly not compressed like the original NG/MVS cart system, so clever coding like what Techno Soft CA Production did in Gate/Wind of Thunder and Sapphire may help a bit. After all, a number of Neo Geo ports sucksksk on the Playstation and the Saturn even needed to install extra RAM cart to pull off some of the ports means that not much can be done.) I'd rather blame they still used a single speed drive to cut cost despite how much data they have to load each time as the main culprit. Loading on the Arcade Card is already annoying (at 150 kb/s means you need at least > 10 s to fill 2 MB) but the PCE at least had an excuse since it's the 1st console ever to use CD-ROM. Well, a lot of the Neo Geo Ports were considered by some to be porting disasters, so we're almost sure the answer is 'no'. Though even with the original source it does not mean you can automagically port the games perfectly. The original source were in 68k assembly, so you still need experience coders to adapt them to 6502/65816 assembly, this not even counting the difference in hardware from the NG so there have to be a lot of stuff to change. (Fatal Fury 2 was the first of the 4 NG fighters released for the Arcade Card and it's commonly regarded as the least faithful conversion, probably because the coders weren't that experienced in the conversion process yet).
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Post by _jash on May 25, 2021 2:59:37 GMT
I really love PCE fighters, and it's great we're giving love to the SNK and ACD ports! I would also like to call out a really fun Ranma fighter that, while not exactly deep, is still really fun and charming. I like the cutscenes and the music is top notch! Ranma ½: Datou, Ganso Musabetsu Kakutou-ryuu! is pretty cool, and usually can be found for cheap on the bay or elsewhere.
I was happy that this game was more playable than the other two PCE Ranma games, as it's entirely a fighting game with somewhat simple controls and move commands. And also, BEWBS! haha
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Post by SignOfZeta on May 25, 2021 10:52:36 GMT
That is a pretty good game. I remember when it was very much in demand but I eventually bought it for ¥100.
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