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Post by spenoza on May 3, 2021 20:33:05 GMT
It's clear there are some folks on here who still love old-school fighting games and enjoy playing fighters on their Turbo/PCE systems. So I'd like to start a thread where we talk about them, in whatever context you want. You can even talk about how you don't like them. That's perfectly valid! I'd say we can even lament the failure of TTI to convince NEC to secure Mortal Kombat (a fighter I happen to not like at all). I'd say the line is wrestling games. Those aren't really fighters. Neither are belt-scrollers and brawlers. Let's stick to fighters.
I'll get things started by professing my love for Street Fighter II'. It has the least interesting music of the 16-bit ports, but in terms of play mechanics and graphics it holds up pretty darn well, and the sound effects are actually really good. I think it plays really well with the NEC Avenue Pad 6, much better than with the SNES pad and its shoulder triggers. I think I might also prefer the '/CE version to Turbo/Hyper Fighting, even though the latter is better balanced and could be considered a "better" fighter.
I also really love Flash Hiders. It's horribly balanced and completely unsuitable for a tournament, but for casual play, it's a blast. The ability to level up characters in single-player mode and then use them in VS is fantastic and you can generate some horribly broken builds.
Are there any under-appreciated fighters on the system people should pay more attention to? Anyone willing to stump for Martial Champions?
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Post by imparanoic on May 4, 2021 2:16:35 GMT
Fatal Fury 2 /special is a decent port, definitely worth getting if you have arcade card
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Post by spenoza on May 4, 2021 2:23:02 GMT
Fatal Fury 2 /special is a decent port, definitely worth getting if you have arcade card I’d say that’s probably the easiest pick of the ACD ports, with World Heroes a close second. But I think a lot was squeezed out of the SuperCD, if partially by using smaller sprites.
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majors
Punkic Cyborg
Have cabs, will travel
Posts: 158
Fave PCE Shooter: Parodius
Fave PCE Platformer: Legendary Axe
Fave PCE Game Overall: Spriggian
Fave PCE RPG: Ys
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Post by majors on May 5, 2021 16:27:48 GMT
Anyone willing to stump for Martial Champions? It's on my list of games I'd get if the price was right or in a lot buy. All this recent praise for FFS is making we want to get is even more. But I can wait for a deal to appear. I picked up FF2, AoF, WH2 and Fighting Street in a lot of 8 other games for $10 last year...so I know to just be patient. I will comment of a less than stellar release that goes by Andre Panza Kickboxing/The Kickboxing. I was hyped when it was coming out by the visuals shows in ads but after playing it, it was quickly traded out. It still looks good but it's more sim than arcade fighter. I actually played the PS1 version of Asuka before picking it up on PCE. We had a lot of fun with it in the PS1 days. I wonder how I would feel about it if I had imported it for my TG-16 when it was new. I might have been put off to it back then do to it being "girly" and I was full of 90's 'tude to consider it. Glad I've opened my eyes to accepting more genres and styles of games (tho I still poop on SNES).
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Post by spenoza on May 5, 2021 16:49:46 GMT
Martial Champion is one I just have a lot of curiosity about. I haven't played it except a little in the arcade when I was in Japan. I really wonder why Konami thought that was a title they needed to release on PCE.
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Post by dshadoff on May 5, 2021 20:43:42 GMT
I'm not into fighting games any more than any other type of game... some might say that I play with the hardware and software a lot more than the games themselves, but I was always partial to Kabuki Ittou Ryoudan. I can't comment on how difficult/easy it was or how it might compare to other fighters... but I liked the art, the fast-moving graphics, the soundtrack, and the imagination that went into it.
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Shirei89
Deep Blooper
Posts: 21
Homebrew skills: In training...
Fave PCE Shooter: Soldier Blade
Fave PCE Platformer: Saigo no Nindou
Fave PCE Game Overall: Gradius II
Fave PCE RPG: Emerald Dragon, Private Eyedol
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Post by Shirei89 on May 8, 2021 3:20:35 GMT
I'm a big fan of the old school fighters. Played them a lot back in the day. For me, SF2' and Garou Densetsu SP are my favorites on the system. I still play them regularly to this day.
I really like the Asuka series and it's probably one of my favorite fighting game series on console. Even though the PCE ver is kinda weak, the later entries (especially Saturn) are great and a lot of fun. Probably the same goes for Advanced VG. The PCE ver is pretty janky, but liked the 2nd one on PS1.
Martial Champion is a turd in my opinion. I played the arcade version back then and even though I liked the graphics and sound/music and presentation, the gameplay was terrible. Konami simply could not make good fighting games unfortunately. As for the PCE port, they did do a good job generally (music, sound, gfx, etc.), but the gameplay is totally horrible. They did put some effort in dressing the game up with an additional intro and opening theme which I liked.
For non-arcade ports, I'd say my favs right now are Flash Hiders and Asuka 120%. Fun for what they are and both support the Arcade Card!
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Post by sunteam_paul on May 8, 2021 9:14:10 GMT
I've always felt like I'm missing something with 1v1 Beat 'em ups. It's like I'm waiting for a lightbulb to go off in my head to say 'That's how you play them', because I can never quite click with having a strategy. It always seems like button bashing to me.
I bought myself Martial Champion for Christmas years back, was very disappointed.
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keithcourage
Punkic Cyborg
https://www.facebook.com/turbografxfan/
Posts: 231
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Post by keithcourage on May 8, 2021 10:43:02 GMT
Martial Champion is pretty good on the PCE. Not quite as good as street fighter II but I think it's a strong 2nd. Flash Hiders is solid as well and so are the Arcade CD 2d fighters.
There are a number of the fighters on the PCE don't play to well(choppy animation) but even with that being said, a number of them still grab my attention so I still end up playing them from time to time. These would include
Advanced VG Burning Fest Algunos
Oh and I honestly like Street Fighter 1. As long as you think about it as not being related to SFII and as a separate series, then there is fun to be had.
BLACK HOLE ASSAULT is junk no matter what system it is played on.
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Post by SignOfZeta on May 8, 2021 19:35:57 GMT
Asuka %120 has that auto guard thing in it that really made it feel like something different. At the time I compared it to Samurai Showdown but really it’s more like KOF 95/96.
IIRC the PCE version’s main thing at the time, as with many games on PCE, was that it was the PC game with CDROM addons. Advanced VG was like this too and IIRC one or both of these games were H but lost it for CDROM2. That was the deal! I think it may also only have been a one button fighter originally...maybe. That may have been a dream I had. I have to wonder if the auto guard aspect wasn’t also made for the PCE.
I do not care for any version of Martial Champions on any system.
One thing I’d like to see from the home brew guys would be a “Rainbow Edition” hack of SFII’ on PCE.
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Post by spenoza on May 8, 2021 21:55:50 GMT
It’s interesting to think about the technical challenges fighting games presented to consoles. It was really all about memory, memory, memory. All the 16-bit era consoles had more than strong enough sprite capabilities. Fighting games are fundamentally 1-on-1, meaning the chance of putting too many sprite pixels on a line is extremely low. But by moving into the CD space and not being forced to develop memory mappers for cartridge, the PCE ended up accidentally almost putting itself out of the fighting game market. The hands-down best fighters on the system required a memory mapper (SF2) or a massive RAM upgrade (ACD). The SFC and Mega Drive had an easier path, in a way, due to the constant need to expand cartridge sizes, meaning all that game data was available pretty much on-demand. It’s just too bad belt-scrollers we’re already on decline by the time the ACD came out.
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Post by SignOfZeta on May 8, 2021 23:51:36 GMT
Yeah, the same thing hurt the PlayStation much more. KOF 98 on PS is such a total waste of time...
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Post by Black_Tiger on May 10, 2021 19:15:47 GMT
It’s interesting to think about the technical challenges fighting games presented to consoles. It was really all about memory, memory, memory. All the 16-bit era consoles had more than strong enough sprite capabilities. Fighting games are fundamentally 1-on-1, meaning the chance of putting too many sprite pixels on a line is extremely low. But by moving into the CD space and not being forced to develop memory mappers for cartridge, the PCE ended up accidentally almost putting itself out of the fighting game market. The hands-down best fighters on the system required a memory mapper (SF2) or a massive RAM upgrade (ACD). The SFC and Mega Drive had an easier path, in a way, due to the constant need to expand cartridge sizes, meaning all that game data was available pretty much on-demand. It’s just too bad belt-scrollers we’re already on decline by the time the ACD came out. Street Fighter style games are the most taxing genre for the Mega Drive's color palette bottleneck. Unlike PCE and SFC, the four available sub-palettes can be used by tiles or sprites, but an entire sub-palette must be dedicated to a player sprite. That leaves only 2 sub-palettes remaining for backgrounds, HUD, ballistics and effects. The PC Engine has 14 remaining sub-palettes for sprite based assets and another 16 for background tiles. It just happened that this genre became the most popular during the peak of the 16-bit generation. With all of that said, as much as palette hacks are limited by the source material, it's amazing what fans have been able to do with Mega Drive games.
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Post by spenoza on May 10, 2021 19:55:10 GMT
This is one of those cases where programmers who abuse the Highlight/Shadow mode on the Genesis can extract get much better graphical results. The PCE absolutely had the graphical chops, but for PCE owners without Arcade Cards there were real limits on what could be done for fighting games on the PCE. Many fighting games at the time (on other platforms as well) used small characters to keep memory usage down, and that's just what the PCE did for SuperCD fighters. Original fighters are also tough for homebrew developers due simply to the art asset requirements.
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Post by Black_Tiger on May 11, 2021 17:43:19 GMT
This is one of those cases where programmers who abuse the Highlight/Shadow mode on the Genesis can extract get much better graphical results. The PCE absolutely had the graphical chops, but for PCE owners without Arcade Cards there were real limits on what could be done for fighting games on the PCE. Many fighting games at the time (on other platforms as well) used small characters to keep memory usage down, and that's just what the PCE did for SuperCD fighters. Original fighters are also tough for homebrew developers due simply to the art asset requirements. S/H is kinda useless for games that push a lot. It's very difficult to use it to increase shades outside of still shots.
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