czroe
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Posts: 45
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Post by czroe on Dec 28, 2020 18:10:26 GMT
The PAL TurboGrafx non-16 (European TurboGrafx-16) AKA "EuroGrafx" does not fit the same Stereo Composite AV cables as other NEC consoles/add-ons (Duo, SuperGrafx, Super CD-ROM², CoreGrafx, etc) despite having the same number of pins and the same signals. That's because it's a 240° DIN5 while the Japanese consoles and TurboDuo use 180° DIN5. I don't see any reason for them to avoid using the same cable/pinout but they did and I couldn't find anywhere online documenting the pinout. [Edit: OK, I do see a reason: 180° DIN5 AV cables like they used in Japan could be plugged into the American-style DIN8 controller port and we can't have that now, can we?] My EuroGrafx came to me without the European "Accessory Kit" so I had to test it inside my TurboGrafx-CD dock using straight RCA cables, but that obviously doesn't help once I put my American console back in its place. I won't be ready to upgrade the video output until I do the 60hz conversion and the new S-Video mods are finalized with the correct YUV colors (versus RGB). In the mean time I need to make my own AV cable: imgur.com/a/w9P4ujzi.imgur.com/iqJ7YrJ.jpgI used a 240° DIN6 from Console5 and ejected the sixth pin: console5.com/store/premium-din-connector-plug-6-pin-in-line-male-solder-cup-gray.htmlPin 1: CVBS Composite Video (Yellow plug) Pin 2: Left Channel Audio (White plug) Pin 3: Right Channel Audio (Red plug) Pin 4: +5 Volts (power for RF modulator) Pin 5: Ground The pin numbering when looking into the female socket simply counts clockwise with pin one on the lower left. Unlike 180° DIN5, the numbering does not skip around to maintain DIN3 pin numbering. Since so many online pinouts get stereo reverse I checked and double-checked my results. I used Chris Covell's PadTest to confirm stereo left and right were correct since the sounds each button makes will come out of the corresponding side of your television. I've done the same test on other stock NEC hardware to make sure PadTest doesn't have it backwards. It doesn't. We should be good.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Dec 28, 2020 18:30:25 GMT
I didn’t realize these even had a multi-out. The US one doesn’t. All docks do though, don’t they? So if you have CD I’m not sure why you’d bother to do...any of this work. Why are you turning a EU model into a US model?
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czroe
Deep Blooper
Posts: 45
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Post by czroe on Dec 28, 2020 21:25:00 GMT
I didn’t realize these even had a multi-out. The US one doesn’t. All docks do though, don’t they? So if you have CD I’m not sure why you’d bother to do...any of this work. Why are you turning a EU model into a US model? Yeah, it's one of the few major differences: Cosmetics (shell color and labels) Frequency/speed (50hz) Color encoding (PAL) The board layout is also completely redone and made on a higher quality PCB, which is relevant to the people buying a $500 SuperGrafx for better quality with their Super SD System³. After the 60hz mod the EuroGrafx is potentially better-suited (we'll see). I don't have a SSDS³ but the EuroGrafx is essentially an American console other than the frequency and video encoding. These days there's no reason to play in 50hz even if you live in a PAL region so a slower system is significantly less-desirable... which is reflected in the selling price (compare a NOS TG16 to a NOS PAL TG!). The mod potentially makes the less-desirable system better than the other one. The docks actually have straight RCA jacks for composite and stereo. While it helped for testing, the TurboGrafx-CD dock is better paired with one of my North American TG16s. Also, I modified one of my RAU-30 ROM² Adapters to fit the EuroGrafx but it only passes audio to the IFU-30 Interface Unit. It is intended to be used with a SuperGrafx where you are supposed to connect the DIN5 cable for composite video but leave the audio plugs dangling. For audio, you are supposed to get that straight from the IFU. I'm actually hoping that Retro Game Restore brings CD games to the HuCard slot since I'd want to keep the gray back cover on the EuroGrafx if possible. The reason I wanted to document it is for anyone else who needs to test their PAL TurboGrafx and doesn't have access to a dock. The main reason I wanted the system for myself, believe it or not, was for the controller variant. I wanted to replicate it for the Retro Game Restore Clear and Smoke controller shells. Though I obviously have other options for playing the games at 60hz this could be the best one (once modded) according to the engineering types who have looked at the PCB. If I ever decide to sell it, well, it couldn't hurt to add value with the 60hz mod.
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czroe
Deep Blooper
Posts: 45
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Post by czroe on Dec 28, 2020 21:28:02 GMT
...and one more reason is because some CD-ROM² games don't tolerate the PAL TurboGrafx at 50hz and I suspect that the 60hz mod will correct that... like Art of Fighting with the Arcade Card. Granted, it needs a region mod for an Arcade Card Pro but when I do up a system I like to go all the way.
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Post by SignOfZeta on Dec 28, 2020 23:01:34 GMT
I have to admit, I don’t understand everything you just wrote (all those Flash things...)...but even in 2020 I have a hard time believing that a Euro Turbografx is cheaper than a TG-16. Is that really true? I suppose it’s possible. JJ and Jeff is now going for triple digit prices, I suppose anything is possible. But...why, again? I still don’t understand. What is a “higher quality” PCB? I’ve never failed any PCE related PCB ever and I can’t remember anyone else mentioning it. It seems extremely academic if true. The Euro TG is basically the worst PCE but also one of the rarer ones and the work you’re doing to make it do what a $50 system would do seems kind of insane. If the answer is “it’s cheaper than therapy” then it’s OK to just say that.
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czroe
Deep Blooper
Posts: 45
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Post by czroe on Dec 29, 2020 17:47:50 GMT
I have to admit, I don’t understand everything you just wrote (all those Flash things...)...but even in 2020 I have a hard time believing that a Euro Turbografx is cheaper than a TG-16. Is that really true? I suppose it’s possible. JJ and Jeff is now going for triple digit prices, I suppose anything is possible. But...why, again? I still don’t understand. What is a “higher quality” PCB? I’ve never failed any PCE related PCB ever and I can’t remember anyone else mentioning it. It seems extremely academic if true. The Euro TG is basically the worst PCE but also one of the rarer ones and the work you’re doing to make it do what a $50 system would do seems kind of insane. If the answer is “it’s cheaper than therapy” then it’s OK to just say that. It's a better board substrate with thicker copper cladding and more robust solder masking, etc. The larger area gives them more freedom to place chips and route traces where they will not as readily pick up interference from neighboring traces/chips. That's supposedly why the SuperGrafx is best for Super SD System³ among the NTSC consoles (less video noise and audio buzz). I paid less than $100 for my loose but new/never used PAL Turbografx back in June. Not sure what a loose but new/unused Turbografx-16 would go for but the one I got wasn't even particularly cheap. The seller had parted several of them out into different bundles and paired this one with the Hyperkin Specialist so he could sell the controller variant seperately for way more money than I wanted to spend. Instead, I paid another $30 to get him to bundle the original controller. I figured I could add value to the EuroGrafx and make that money back if I don't end up keeping it.
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