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Post by elmer on Apr 8, 2019 1:16:15 GMT
Probably because a certain somebody had their nose stuffed way up Michirin9801's ass, and Michirin got ran out of the PCEFX forum (and Deflemask forum/discord) for being generally obnoxious, sooo... i'm guessing they're probably butthurt about it lol Really, dude? Yet, somehow, you still wonder why nobody will work with you on your "masterpiece" games? Sad to hear that Michirin9801'a absence was due to drama. I was unaware and had assumed Michirin9801 was just too busy working on personal projects to be involved with the community - that person seemed to create a lot of content and was barreling down some sort of overarching project. I was never present for obnoxious behavior, but the amount of work that Mirichin9801 put in seemed very impressive at the time so I am sorry to hear that involvement dropped out. I normally don't waste my time with Discord, but, after spending a few minutes searching old posts on the DefleMask Discord, it becomes fairly clear (to me) to see that michirin9801 was generally being helpful and supportive, and that she chose to leave the place after stupid sexist behavior and toxic idiocy from some other members there. As to whether she had an "elitist and narrow-minded" attitude about PCE music ... well, sure, she's pretty much a purist about trying to create music within the same restrictions that the original PCE musicians back in the 80's and 90's faced when they were creating music for games; whereas some folks seem to believe that throwing in a few hundred kilobytes of 32KHz samples is somehow still "authentic". I'm absolutely sure that opinions occasional clashed, but I've seen no evidence that michirin9801 was being rude or obnoxious. Perhaps that happened (if it did happen) on YouTube instead. If you're implying that Elmer has bailed on huzak because of Michirin9801's absence I would suggest contacting him directly about your questions rather than passively aggressively attacking his appreciation for one of the most, if not the most, productive musicians on the pce deflemask scene afaik. I've not spoken with michirin9801 in well over a year, now. But from these posts on Discord, it appears that she seems to have no problem understanding why I took a break from developing Huzak ... Pegmode 11/17/2018 when is Huzak gonna come out
Michirin9801 11/17/2018 I have no idea honestly, I haven't talked to elmer in a while...
Pegmode 11/17/2018 I hope he does finish it it'd be nice to have something that can play PCE stuff
Michirin9801 11/17/2018 He probably will when somebody starts making a PCE game and uses Deflemask for the soundtrack... Whenever that happens... I've been pretty clear, multiple times, that that's what I'm waiting for before getting back to work on it. It's not about "different priorities", it's about not hoarding information and giving that information back to the community, so they can actually DO something with it instead of just sit on it for years... particularly for petty, passive aggressive reasons. Again with the insults ... sheesh! What information am I hoarding ... I don't remember anybody asking me for any information? As for the code that I've written ... well, that's not "information", and that's something that I will release it when I feel that it's ready for release. I wrote it, so I get to choose that time, not you. One of the other reasons for taking a break from Huzak, was that Delek was preparing a new release of DefleMask that would incorporate a bunch of new features and bug-fixes that people (like michirin9801 and myself) were wanting (and which are already implemented in Huzak). Delek got busy at a new job, and that new version still has not been released, yet. Huzak is my attempt to create something useful for game-development teams. It is specifically focused on what is usable for in-game music and sound-effects. I have zero interest in creating a HES-player for the kool-kids of Discord/IRC. If you want fixes to DefleMask's HES output, then talk to DefleMask's author, or write your own filter program ... HES data should be pretty simple to parse. Only shame I see here is that this introduces a third branch of music options. Choices are pretty-much always good to have. Competition helps to encourage developers to improve their offerings. Some talented people from the chiptune community i know have expressed interest in creating pretty much the exact same thing as Huzak (except making it an ACTUAL, for-real open source project). More power to them! Delek has documented the Deflemask file format ... so go for it! I'm happy to help out those who stop sitting back and complaining, and actually lift a finger to help themselves. Perhaps your friends could also create an open-source replacement for DefleMask while they're at it. It's not really a "crew", just a couple of people I know from the scene. It's mainly DeltaRazero, zeromus and myself who have expressed interest in this. We're usually in #mednafen on Freenode IRC and also the Deflemask Discord server. The intent is to make something that eats DMF (Deflemask module) files and poops out either .PCE roms, or .HES files that play the right damn way on a real PC-Engine (e.g., no excessive wavetable gaps or screwy white noise volume curves). Good! Have fun, and go create something useful! Stop expecting someone else to do it for you. I'm here if people have any actual questions, and can behave in a reasonably-polite fashion.
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Post by gredler on Apr 8, 2019 1:24:40 GMT
My questions will be in the other, less toxic, threads.
I appreciate the info and your follow up!
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Post by elmer on Apr 8, 2019 1:38:32 GMT
Years later, I actually do understand why it was done. I tip my hat to the guys who wrote the original code.... The problem is that the tia instruction (and other block moves) delays interrupts. Since the original system player can run on the timer interrupt, you can't be sure exactly when it will occur in a frame. It could -potentially- stall an hsync interrupt, causing graphics glitches. I'm not 100% sure that it -would-, but it's nice defensive programming. I'm not sure enough how the interrupts are prioritized to claim it would happen, just that the potential is there. Yep, stable interrupt-handling is a real pain to design! I, too, can understand why the System Card developers chose to emphasize stability over performance. In the case of running audio (or sample-playback) off of the Timer Interrupt, if both a Timer Interrupt and a VDC Hsync Interrupt are pending, then the Timer Interrupt will take priority. It's not *too* difficult to acknowledge the Timer Interrupt, set a mutex for the audio, and re-enable interrupts so that the VDC's Hsync Interrupt can still be processed in time ... and then return back to finish processing the Timer Interrupt. But your Hsync code has to be written with this possibility specifically in mind ... ... which just isn't a reasonable expectation to insist upon when you're writing generic utility-code such as what is in the System Card. It gets even more fun if the Hsync interrupt handler can block for long-enough that a 2nd Timer Interrupt occurs (which can easily happen in sample-playback)!
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fragmare
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 116
Homebrew skills: Graphics, Music, Level Design, Annoying Programmers
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Post by fragmare on Apr 8, 2019 7:57:46 GMT
Probably because a certain somebody had their nose stuffed way up Michirin9801's ass, and Michirin got ran out of the PCEFX forum (and Deflemask forum/discord) for being generally obnoxious, sooo... i'm guessing they're probably butthurt about it lol Really, dude? Yet, somehow, you still wonder why nobody will work with you on your "masterpiece" games? You're literally the only person in this community I can't get along with, there, sweet pea. Well, you and Nightwolve, so you're in good company lol. And WHEN did I EVER claim anything I've ever made was a "masterpiece"? You're putting words in my mouth I've never said. The only thing I remember is giving you a big fat "NO" on PCEFX when YOU asked me via PM to let you code Xymati, because you wanted to take the project in some pretty silly directions. Then, your reply of, "Well, I'll see if I can change your mind about it...", or something similar, really let me know the kind of arrogance I'm dealing with, here. From that point forward, all I've gotten from you is passive aggressive jabs, off handed comments and a condescending attitude. Those are dead/dormant projects anyway, and not even solely my IP. It's Mindrec's (Btgarner's) IP. Move on... I normally don't waste my time with Discord, but, after spending a few minutes searching old posts on the DefleMask Discord, it becomes fairly clear (to me) to see that michirin9801 was generally being helpful and supportive, and that she chose to leave the place after stupid sexist behavior and toxic idiocy from some other members there. As to whether she had an "elitist and narrow-minded" attitude about PCE music ... well, sure, she's pretty much a purist about trying to create music within the same restrictions that the original PCE musicians back in the 80's and 90's faced when they were creating music for games; whereas some folks seem to believe that throwing in a few hundred kilobytes of 32KHz samples is somehow still "authentic". I'm absolutely sure that opinions occasional clashed, but I've seen no evidence that michirin9801 was being rude or obnoxious. Perhaps that happened (if it did happen) on YouTube instead. Please do not speculate on things you were not there to witness. This took place mainly on the Deflemask Discord server. And it absolutely happened. People were literally leaving the Deflemask discord for other (non-related) servers so they could chat about PCE chip music in relative peace. Michirin is gone, and the PCE chip music scene is a much friendlier place for new musicians for it... even if it pains you to believe it. Also, btw, "some folks" use 32khz samples because 32khz is the only sample rate in Deflemask that can be downsampled to 16khz and 8khz (as close as you're going to get with Deflemask to the PCE's "discounted" sample rates) within the tracker. Personally, I leave mine at 32khz, because i figure by the time the sample is in the Deflemask module, it's suffered enough abuse (downsampling, upsampling, bit depth conversions, etc.). Besides, there's nothing wrong with using PCM samples in PCE music, muh dude... t'was done ubiquitously in the PCE's heyday. Just because it doesn't "fall in line" with your idea of PCE chip music, doesn't mean it isn't PCE chip music. Kinda sounds like you're in the same narrow minded, elitist boat Michirin is in, if I didn't know any better. Explains why you two got along so well, I suppose... If you're implying that Elmer has bailed on huzak because of Michirin9801's absence I would suggest contacting him directly about your questions rather than passively aggressively attacking his appreciation for one of the most, if not the most, productive musicians on the pce deflemask scene afaik. I've not spoken with michirin9801 in well over a year, now. But from these posts on Discord, it appears that she seems to have no problem understanding why I took a break from developing Huzak ... Pegmode 11/17/2018 when is Huzak gonna come out
Michirin9801 11/17/2018 I have no idea honestly, I haven't talked to elmer in a while...
Pegmode 11/17/2018 I hope he does finish it it'd be nice to have something that can play PCE stuff
Michirin9801 11/17/2018 He probably will when somebody starts making a PCE game and uses Deflemask for the soundtrack... Whenever that happens... I've been pretty clear, multiple times, that that's what I'm waiting for before getting back to work on it. It's not about "different priorities", it's about not hoarding information and giving that information back to the community, so they can actually DO something with it instead of just sit on it for years... particularly for petty, passive aggressive reasons. Again with the insults ... sheesh! What information am I hoarding ... I don't remember anybody asking me for any information? As for the code that I've written ... well, that's not "information", and that's something that I will release it when I feel that it's ready for release. I wrote it, so I get to choose that time, not you. One of the other reasons for taking a break from Huzak, was that Delek was preparing a new release of DefleMask that would incorporate a bunch of new features and bug-fixes that people (like michirin9801 and myself) were wanting (and which are already implemented in Huzak). Delek got busy at a new job, and that new version still has not been released, yet. Huzak is my attempt to create something useful for game-development teams. It is specifically focused on what is usable for in-game music and sound-effects. I have zero interest in creating a HES-player for the kool-kids of Discord/IRC. If you want fixes to DefleMask's HES output, then talk to DefleMask's author, or write your own filter program ... HES data should be pretty simple to parse. Where's the insult? Does the truth insult you? You have sat on the project for years, regardless of your reasons for it. And despite what you might believe, your code *is* information. All code is. It's just information you have chosen not to share with others (unless it's Michirin, apparently). Like i said before, there is absolutely, positively *ZERO* reason for closed source utilities and/or tools in a small niche community, like this. No reason i can see other than ego, pride and arrogance, anyway. If it were game code or something else potentially profitable, sure... keep that locked away. But tools and utilities? NO reason, at all to keep that closed source. None. As for your comment about the "kool-kids of Discord/IRC", I will refer back to my comment about you being in the same boat as Michirin. Those "kool-kids" are 40+ year old grown men with lives, wives and jobs, and a passion for retro video gaming, the same as you. Those same "kool-kids" will be the individuals interested in creating PCE music for future game projects. All I'm seeing with this comment is confirmation of your profound arrogance, and unwillingness to help those you deem to be "beneath" you. Only shame I see here is that this introduces a third branch of music options. Choices are pretty-much always good to have. Competition helps to encourage developers to improve their offerings. Competition is not what the PCE scene needs right now. What the PCE scene needs is more people helping each other, more cohesiveness, and sharing of information. There's just not enough active people in the community for any kind of competition to be viable and result in anything positive. I'm happy to help out those who stop sitting back and complaining, and actually lift a finger to help themselves. Are you really, though? Perhaps when you finally port Osman, you can lift your own sprightly little fingers and help yourself convert the graphics and cover the music. Doesn't sound very doable to you, does it? You can't simply expect someone to learn something new and be proficient at it. Especially not right away. Coding isn't for everyone. Pixel art isn't for everyone. Chiptunes aren't for everyone. People have different skill sets, and where those skill sets don't overlap is where people need to help one another. Perhaps your friends could also create an open-source replacement for DefleMask while they're at it. Well, Mooz *was* creating an on-system tracker for the PCE, but stopped solely because you were supposed to be "finishing up" Huzak... I guess he should have kept going with it. From what you're saying, Huzak might NEVER see the light of day unless your contingencies are met. I know I'm not holding my breath for it...
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fragmare
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 116
Homebrew skills: Graphics, Music, Level Design, Annoying Programmers
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Post by fragmare on Apr 8, 2019 8:19:22 GMT
spenoza Tell you what, man, how about you go ahead and lock this thread and I'll place Elmer on block, and we can just call it a day. This thread spiraled into a shit show, and I apologize. I got the information I asked for 3 pages ago anyway. Thanks again, digipiggy !
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Post by elmer on Apr 8, 2019 18:01:58 GMT
Oh, dear ... more. Online communities are composed of people with differing opinions and motivations. People can either deal relatively-politely with each other, and try to understand those differences ... or not. Let those that care to waste the time, just go and take a look at the Discord Server and read/compare michirin9801's posts vs other people's posts. The only part of the previous stuff that's worth commenting on is ... Well, Mooz *was* creating an on-system tracker for the PCE, but stopped solely because you were supposed to be "finishing up" Huzak... I guess he should have kept going with it. That was entirely up to him ... I am not responsible for his personal choices or scheduling. The same with his dmf-player, that I see he's started working on again after taking a break from it in 2015. You seem to have missed my point. As a programmer, I'm delighted to see people actually programming for the PCE. If Mooz has any questions on what I've discovered about DefleMask's processing, then I'm happy to share the information. BTW ... having an unfinished project be open-source and available on github, doesn't magically make programmers appear from out-of-nowhere to finish it off. In my experience, programmers tend to be *far* more interested in expanding something that already works, rather than trying to fix something that never worked, and that the original author abandoned.
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fragmare
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 116
Homebrew skills: Graphics, Music, Level Design, Annoying Programmers
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Post by fragmare on Apr 8, 2019 20:49:05 GMT
elmer Do not reply to any more of my threads. Please, and thank you.
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Post by spenoza on Apr 8, 2019 23:29:25 GMT
I’m afraid nobody on here who’s not a mod can tell another forum member what and how to post. I am also I’ll-inclined to close or lock this thread without some compelling reason other than one member being annoyed at another member. I trust all of you to be passably civil. I would not like a good reason to have to question that.
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fragmare
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 116
Homebrew skills: Graphics, Music, Level Design, Annoying Programmers
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Post by fragmare on Apr 8, 2019 23:48:44 GMT
I’m afraid nobody on here who’s not a mod can tell another forum member what and how to post. Hence the "Please and thank you." Any further replies by Elmer in my threads I create will be summarily ignored. He's currently blocked anyway. I would hope he would know better than to stick his nose in one of my threads again, anyway, after this debacle, lest there be a repeat... but you never know, some people are pretty hard headed......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 3:13:45 GMT
You're literally the only person in this community I can't get along with, there, sweet pea. Well, you and Nightwolve, so you're in good company lol. And WHEN did I EVER claim anything I've ever made was a "masterpiece"? You're putting words in my mouth I've never said. The only thing I remember is giving you a big fat "NO" on PCEFX when YOU asked me via PM to let you code Xymati, because you wanted to take the project in some pretty silly directions. Then, your reply of, "Well, I'll see if I can change your mind about it...", or something similar, really let me know the kind of arrogance I'm dealing with, here. From that point forward, all I've gotten from you is passive aggressive jabs, off handed comments and a condescending attitude. Those are dead/dormant projects anyway, and not even solely my IP. It's Mindrec's (Btgarner's) IP. Move on... I'm only replying to this because of my interest in homebrew games, but out of the Mindrec games I think crash has potential. Just have the computer's car start out a little slower (at least in the beginning), the dots respawn and give it a fresh coat of paint (maybe adding stuff like traffic lights, stop signs and pedestrians if they work) and I think you have a game.
Hope you don't mind me butting in.
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