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Post by elmer on Sept 16, 2018 1:30:18 GMT
Squirrel seems nice, but there doesn't seem to be any source included and the binary release is Windows only. It does seem to run fine under Wine though. At what point of development are you with Huzak? Will it be open source software and are you planning on integrating it with HuC4? The Squirrel MML converter is definitely closed-source and Windows-only. That's one of the reasons for the creation of Huzak. Huzak will be released as Open Source when it has reached the maturity to get a decent release. I'm not particularly planning on shipping it inside HuC4, I kinda think that it should be separate and work with ASM/HuC3/HuC4. I may change my mind on that if I choose to make HuC4 a completely-integrate dev environment and bundle it with my customized version of Mednafen, which honestly, seems like it could be a good idea to make things easy on new developers. Huzak itself is "mostly-done" ... and has been so for quite a while now. Mainly I need a huge kick in the pants to get motivated to finish it off. The best kick-in-the-pants would be some developer(s) actually wanting to use it, and having a musician that's willing to work with them to create game music and sound effects. DK & Gredler could provide that kick ... if they've finally found themselves a musician, and are ready to work with me on getting their Catastrophy sound integrated. Huzak is a PCE game-ready player for Deflemask tunes . It was used to create the PCE ROMs for Michirin9801's 1st chiptune album on bandcamp ( Best of Michirin - Vol. 1). You can download the PCE ROMs from here and play them in an emulator. I noticed you already have a HuC4 repo on GitHub, is that where your future development will be concentrated? Yes, but don't hold your breath! Also, please understand that HuC4 will almost-certainly be for CD game development only (or maybe the Turbo Everdrive 2). I just can't be bothered to deal with the restrictions caused by base PCE's limited 8KB of RAM anymore!
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Post by gredler on Sept 18, 2018 20:08:37 GMT
Huzak itself is "mostly-done" ... and has been so for quite a while now. Mainly I need a huge kick in the pants to get motivated to finish it off. The best kick-in-the-pants would be some developer(s) actually wanting to use it, and having a musician that's willing to work with them to create game music and sound effects. DK & Gredler could provide that kick ... if they've finally found themselves a musician, and are ready to work with me on getting their Catastrophy sound integrated. This is awesome to hear, thanks for sharing the update. Definitely a motivator to think this is still on the table - I really need to make some stuff!
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Post by DarkKobold on Sept 18, 2018 21:03:18 GMT
Huzak itself is "mostly-done" ... and has been so for quite a while now. Mainly I need a huge kick in the pants to get motivated to finish it off. The best kick-in-the-pants would be some developer(s) actually wanting to use it, and having a musician that's willing to work with them to create game music and sound effects. DK & Gredler could provide that kick ... if they've finally found themselves a musician, and are ready to work with me on getting their Catastrophy sound integrated.
The one thing I'm most excited about, and was hoping to do, was to get sample support going. Things like cat meows, dog barks, howls, vacuum noises, etc. I'm really curious to see about down-sampling to 5 bit waveforms, and giving them a try. I figured I'd be able to give that a try in MATLAB, and then convert those to Huzak-compatible output. I think that is what will take Catastrophy from a crappy alpha into a more full-feeling game. It doesn't serve the game well, to have it silent.
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Post by spenoza on Sept 19, 2018 0:37:37 GMT
Vacuum noises you could replicate with the white noise function.
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touko
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 106
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Post by touko on Sept 19, 2018 9:14:19 GMT
They can use Michirin9801 or fragmare deflemask musics for testing,until they find a musician .. I'am also really interested by your player,and not only me, mooz too and some others . I agree
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Post by gredler on Sept 20, 2018 3:32:35 GMT
They can use Michirin9801 or fragmare deflemask musics for testing,until they find a musician Thanks. Fragmare already shot us down, but we haven't hit up Michirin9801 for any content. I asked my friend's brother, who has midi recording hardware and is interested in making music, if he would make us some deflemask stuff. elmer is this the best thread to discuss huzak, or should we make one? I have few questions and discussion on that specific tool might be best located outside of this huc thread. Vacuum noises you could replicate with the white noise function. I agree, there are a lot of noises we can use squirrel for, or is white noise function something huc can do outside of squirrel?
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touko
Punkic Cyborg
Posts: 106
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Post by touko on Sept 20, 2018 8:19:31 GMT
Maybe he's really disappointed by all the works he has done for nothing with PC Gunjin & Xymati (which is understandable).
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Post by elmer on Sept 23, 2018 20:52:12 GMT
They can use Michirin9801 or fragmare deflemask musics for testing,until they find a musician .. I'm afraid that that wouldn't be a good test of anything important (IMHO). Huzak is only going to really move forward when someone is ready to use Deflemask to produce some real game-ready audio. That means making tune(s) that are designed to still sound good when channels drop out to play sound effects ... and then creating those sound effects, too. And I don't mean sampled effects, although that's a part of it. Plenty of sound effects (and often all of them in a game) just use tones/white-noise. Getting a sound-designer/musician who's willing to work with both me and the development team together is what is needed next. elmer is this the best thread to discuss huzak, or should we make one? I have few questions and discussion on that specific tool might be best located outside of this huc thread. I guess that we should probably make a new one. I agree, there are a lot of noises we can use squirrel for, or is white noise function something huc can do outside of squirrel? Errr ... errr ... I don't think that you understand how sound drivers are supposed to work in a game. The PSG's ability to play white noise has nothing to do with either Squirrel or Huzak. You can choose to use either Squirrel or Huzak to drive the PSG ... but not both. And "yes", Huzak supports the PSG's white noise ... as does Deflemask (although Deflemask only *currently* supports half of the white noise frequencies, but you can work around that in Huzak). Really ... unless some unknown PCE-capable musician appears on the horizon, you're best-off begging michirin9801 for help, or scouring the Deflemask forum for users that post PCE tunes there.
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Post by gredler on Sept 24, 2018 18:41:43 GMT
They can use Michirin9801 or fragmare deflemask musics for testing,until they find a musician .. I'm afraid that that wouldn't be a good test of anything important (IMHO). Huzak is only going to really move forward when someone is ready to use Deflemask to produce some real game-ready audio. That means making tune(s) that are designed to still sound good when channels drop out to play sound effects ... and then creating those sound effects, too. And I don't mean sampled effects, although that's a part of it. Plenty of sound effects (and often all of them in a game) just use tones/white-noise. Getting a sound-designer/musician who's willing to work with both me and the development team together is what is needed next. It would be awesome to learn and work with you on establishing tools and a workflow for this as the sound-designer/musician in interim. I can use public domain songs for now and make my own sound effects. I tried with MML (as you can see on shower level) but I think deflemask seems more straightforward than text editing a song/sfx into existence. I don't know what tools I can use to make stuff to convert through Squirrel, and fruity loops is too expensive for this hobby's needs. Our game doesn't need bad ass fantastic music, I just want to learn how to make games on the system and contribute however I can to the crew for making these games. If I can get something working in game, and then can explain it to a musician friend with actual talent and knowledge, we could potentially expand the pool of talent creating games for our favorite system Errr ... errr ... I don't think that you understand how sound drivers are supposed to work in a game. The PSG's ability to play white noise has nothing to do with either Squirrel or Huzak. You can choose to use either Squirrel or Huzak to drive the PSG ... but not both. And "yes", Huzak supports the PSG's white noise ... as does Deflemask (although Deflemask only *currently* supports half of the white noise frequencies, but you can work around that in Huzak). Really ... unless some unknown PCE-capable musician appears on the horizon, you're best-off begging michirin9801 for help, or scouring the Deflemask forum for users that post PCE tunes there. Sitting on this excuse of me being ignorant about the sound side of development makes me feel like the wrench in the machine, sorry! DK is pretty adamant about me only focusing on art, but honestly I got into this project to learn the development process as a whole, and didn't expect to become thought of as a "pixel artist". I only do the pixel art because I can, but I'd also like to expand my knowledge beyond just art and help however I can. I can't code in ASM but I am getting better at C I think. At work we use C# type derived proprietary language that is OOP/Class/Struct style, but I think it's all positive learning different techniques I am very ignorant, and I do not know how sound drivers are supposed to work in a game, but learning is why I am on any of these forums so please excuse my dulladarity. I've never worked much with sound, and have even less experience manipulating hardware directly through code, but for me the most exciting part of working on catastrophy is the education of this process. Honestly, your post makes it sound like learning this stuff is impossible, by saying we're best off begging michirin for help, which I will certainly do while trying to learn, but I don't think the best approach to fostering a community of developers is to resort to "you can have arkhan do it in squirrel, or michirin do it in huzak". I would love to help the obey brew crew expand and grow and by doing that making this stuff teachable would be great Edit: That being said, I am scouring over the Deflemask documentation and tutorials now, and also poking into your programming references thread, and will be trying to create some stuff that I can send you for making some progress here! Thanks again for all your help and patience dude!
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Post by DarkKobold on Dec 14, 2018 21:59:14 GMT
Can #incspr now also use PNGs?
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Post by Galahad on Dec 14, 2018 22:03:53 GMT
Can #incspr now also use PNGs? Yes
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Post by DarkKobold on Jan 25, 2019 20:37:28 GMT
Huzak itself is "mostly-done" ... and has been so for quite a while now. Mainly I need a huge kick in the pants to get motivated to finish it off. The best kick-in-the-pants would be some developer(s) actually wanting to use it, and having a musician that's willing to work with them to create game music and sound effects. DK & Gredler could provide that kick ... if they've finally found themselves a musician, and are ready to work with me on getting their Catastrophy sound integrated. So, gredler and I are feeling the pinch of lack of sound effects. We've actually recruited a musician who is creating great things in midi format. It's not hard to convert midi to deflemask, as far as I know. Once I get permission, I'll post some samples of his music.
So, in short, is that the kick in the pants? Would you like a copy of the code? What can greds and I do to help you make this a reality?
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Post by gredler on Jan 25, 2019 22:40:18 GMT
To give a bit of context, our own lukester 's brother offered to help us out, and he's been cranking out a bunch of tunes that I'd be happy to use. Getting out of the sound slump would be amazing
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Post by elmer on Jan 25, 2019 23:14:43 GMT
We've actually recruited a musician who is creating great things in midi format. It's not hard to convert midi to deflemask, as far as I know. I'm happy that you've found a musician to help, that's great! Now your musician needs to learn how to use the tools that are available, and not just rely on his/her existing MIDI setup (and whatever sound synth that comes with). I am neither a musician, nor a music teacher. I've said this before, but I'll remind you again ... you need to pick either Squirrel or Huzak, you can't use both. If your musician would like some peer help in getting up-to-speed with Deflemask, then there is a whole forum of folks who use Deflemask, and someone there may be able to help. If they want to use Squirrel, then they should be talking to Arkhan. What can greds and I do to help you make this a reality? If you want to use Huzak for music, then you're going to need your music in Deflemask format, not MIDI. If you want to use Huzak for sound effects, then you're going to need your sound effects in Deflemask format, not MID ... and definitely not in the System Card's PSG driver's format (i.e. not Squirrel). Come back when your musician is willing to create tracks in Deflemask, and has actually succeeded in doing so. When you've got some tracks, then I can help you to get them working in your game. Until then, there is really nothing for me to do. P.S. You're not going to find Squirrel to be some silver-bullet either, even though Arkhan's favorite MML editor can load MIDI tracks. There is a *huge* difference between having a bunch of note values and durations (i.e. MIDI data), and something that actually *sounds* good when played through the PSG (which needs instruments, envelopes, effects, etc). That's why I consider the work that michirin9801 and fragmare have done to be so wonderful. They "get it". P.S. When it comes to Sound Effects ... in both the System Card's driver (i.e. Squirrel) and Deflemask (i.e. Huzak), sound effects are basically created by having a mix of tone values and noise values, and then changing them every 1/60th. The System Card driver calls this "Percussion Data". It's not really any different to creating a short track in Deflemask, and creating a Deflemask "Instrument" with Volume, Arpeggio, Noise and Waveform macros. In fact, that's *exactly* how your musician will have to create it in order to have Huzak use it. With both Squirrel and Huzak, your musician is going to have to be careful of how they use the PSG's channels, and be aware that sound effects are going to steal channels from whatever tune is playing at the time. And if this stuff all sounds like gobbledegook ... then you're just not quite ready for my help, yet.
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Post by gredler on Jan 25, 2019 23:47:13 GMT
Heck yeah thank you! I would vote this discussion further expands on the sound thread I created, as not to bloat the HuC Thread.
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