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Post by spenoza on May 10, 2018 20:33:05 GMT
If what BT writes is true, they're actually really damn close at this point. Sounds like we're just the latest firmware away from having it right.
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Post by Black_Tiger on May 10, 2018 21:03:26 GMT
I can't write an essay on my break on my phone about how things actually played out, but the drama is based mostly on drama and the product turned out better out of the gate than most do.
A bunch of people decided to hate on the SSS3 while pretending to forget all of the past and current issues with everdrives, hi-defnes/(super)NTs, etc and some of the responses from those invloved. Remember that kevtris has straight up boycotted PCE because one site didn't like the spam from one of his customers/distributors.
All anyone needs to know about how the SSS3 will be supported is how TO has taken care of the NeoSD. The SSS3 is already close to 100% compatibility with the entire library as far as the userbase can tell and they're committed to keep updating the firnware until no one xan find issues in any games, as well as continuibg to add extra features. They even analyzing FX Unit Yuki to get the redbook sounding perfect. The gane is so new that not everyone has received their copies yet.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 21:06:35 GMT
This is what worries me, it feels like the hardware has compatibility patches on a game-to-game basis. As a developer I'm not really interested in something like that, plus I really don't care about the extra features.
That's just my opinion though, I'm not hating on anyone that has the product, go wild with it and obey! I'll just wait for the GDEMU PC Engine ODE, which is a long way from completion but it will probably be worth waiting for, at least for me.
edit with qutoe from GDEMU guy which mirrors my feelings about SSD 3 exactly:
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nando
Gun-headed
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Post by nando on May 10, 2018 21:32:04 GMT
From what people are describing I'd rather wait for the GDEMU guy to release his CDROM hardware emulator. Feels like they were too ambitious with their device and didn't test it properly. I really don't see any value in something buggy that tries to put everything but the kitchen sink in it as a functionality. Is it that hard to include ONLY CD hardware emulation and focus on that being almost an 1:1 replacement to a CDROM drive? edit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus except the replacements aren't 1:1 Where can I find more info on the GDEMU? Being able to not bother with CDRs and the stupid cost of games nowadays would be awesome. Edit: seems like I got a coincidental partial reply to my question on the post above
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 21:35:33 GMT
From what people are describing I'd rather wait for the GDEMU guy to release his CDROM hardware emulator. Feels like they were too ambitious with their device and didn't test it properly. I really don't see any value in something buggy that tries to put everything but the kitchen sink in it as a functionality. Is it that hard to include ONLY CD hardware emulation and focus on that being almost an 1:1 replacement to a CDROM drive? edit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus except the replacements aren't 1:1 Where can I find more info on the GDEMU? Being able to not bother with CDRs and the stupid cost of games nowadays would be awesome. The "GDEMU" is the main product he's famous for, the Dreamcast GDRom emulator which always seem to sell out fast. He's working on a FM Towns Marty and a PC Engine CDROM replacements just like the aforementioned dreamcast one, but his updates are kinda sparse about the PC Engine one (this is the latest mention afaik): gdemu.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/where-were-going/It's not abandoned but it's probably going to take a good while until release.
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Post by chopsticksamurai on May 10, 2018 22:06:45 GMT
Considering what a PITA it is to try and buy his other products, I have no hope this will be any different.
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Post by Black_Tiger on May 10, 2018 22:58:48 GMT
From what people are describing I'd rather wait for the GDEMU guy to release his CDROM hardware emulator. Feels like they were too ambitious with their device and didn't test it properly. I really don't see any value in something buggy that tries to put everything but the kitchen sink in it as a functionality. Is it that hard to include ONLY CD hardware emulation and focus on that being almost an 1:1 replacement to a CDROM drive? edit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus except the replacements aren't 1:1 Where can I find more info on the GDEMU? Being able to not bother with CDRs and the stupid cost of games nowadays would be awesome. Edit: seems like I got a coincidental partial reply to my question on the post above Most of the details he described sounded like they simply fine tuned the read speed. The audio issue seems to be simply that they set the output volume of everything extra high in the initial firmware, since many people complain about PCE audio being to quiet. I've never read anything that sounded like game patching. What is involved in getting a Neo Geo flash cart of any kind to work is a huge undertaking. The level of accuracy they worked towards through authentic hardware behaviour is hard to believe. These guys are all about legit functions and the main engineer neodev has talked about using the same approach to figure out how a PCE CD combo actually works. There is no emulation of PCE hardware. The only simulated part is the adpcm. But like redbook, it's just playing recorded audio as it exists on the CD game discs. neodev even asked me for a list of sound roms that don't play correctly, even though they aren't officially supported. He wants to figure out how and why anything doesn't work. I'm all about real hardware and getting the best quality outout and misc mods. I think that the last refurbishing and mods I got done on my original TurboDuo cost around $400 shipped round trip and was worth it. I'm not replacing my hardware with the SSS3, but it feels like an improved experience overall with improved load times, the laser never getting lost, not checking which of my 4 Tennokoe Banks has the right save files and such a streamlined small footprint when setting it up.
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nando
Gun-headed
Posts: 97
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Post by nando on May 11, 2018 2:33:26 GMT
Thank you all!
What’s the web site for the unit?
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Post by Arkhan on May 11, 2018 16:02:31 GMT
There were actual hardware issues where people had to open and fix it themselves.
The reason it isnt easy to dismiss things like that (like components being on backwards), is because it's not cheap like an everdrive.
This thing is $$$$. One would expect the product to be tested and have better QC. That they're fixing it now and such just demonstrates how much they didn't test it in a rush to get it out there.
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Post by spenoza on May 11, 2018 16:13:55 GMT
I agree that that's an issue. But they're also a very small operation with a not especially large potential customer base. It's tough. I mean, I'd like them to have had better quality control, but I'm not sure it's reasonable for me to expect it. I also worry about a lot of these kinds of projects, even from folks like Krizz and the Analog folks, because these custom boards, we don't really know what the component and board quality are. Will they hold up or will they stop working after 5 or 6 years? I mean, we talk about not wanting to wear out our CD drives, but look how long they've worked, and how long they will continue to work when repaired. These kinds of replacement products, EverDrive included, probably have little chance of outlasting high-quality, quality-controlled manufacturing from a company like NEC and its component providers of the day.
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Post by soop on May 11, 2018 16:24:46 GMT
I disagree. Electrolytic capacitors have a limited lifespan obviously, but the main reason CD Drives can die so easily is because they feature moving parts. In any device, moving parts have a lifespan. It's part of the reason electric cars are more reliable than regular vehicles, there's much less to go wrong.
Given that neither the Everdrive or the SSD3 have moving parts, they should outlast anyone who takes reasonable care of them
And on the subject of TerraOnion, I'm a little on the fence, but I think now that the issues are being addressed, I think it's fine. What was alarming, was at the height of the drama, they started outright stating that certain issues were not their problem (issues with sound and video in certain hardware combos). I'm glad to see they came around, but I certainly hope lessons were learned from this.
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Post by Arkhan on May 11, 2018 16:25:07 GMT
Yeah, alot of these things will probably take a shit in 10-20 years lol.
The SS3 thing had ALOT of issues from people. Sound and video stuff was wrong. I laughed at some of them, like Rondo of Blood having red everywhere. Some of it was physical flaws with the devices. Stuff that should have been caught before selling any of them.
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Post by spenoza on May 11, 2018 16:37:10 GMT
I disagree. Electrolytic capacitors have a limited lifespan obviously, but the main reason CD Drives can die so easily is because they feature moving parts. In any device, moving parts have a lifespan. It's part of the reason electric cars are more reliable than regular vehicles, there's much less to go wrong. Given that neither the Everdrive or the SSD3 have moving parts, they should outlast anyone who takes reasonable care of them There's an important point you're missing: cheap electronics made from cheap parts on cheap board with cheap solder or poor quality joints will die long before well-designed mechanical items will. See, most mechanical stuff made by large manufacturers is designed to withstand that mechanical use, and in the 80s and 90s it was common to have very high-quality manufacturing. Manufacturing now is much cheaper, minimized material used, and doesn't have the same level of quality control. Look at modern washers and dryers. They are only expected to last 10 years, as opposed to the agitator machines of decades past that easily lasted 25-30. And electronics, especially cheaply made ones, can just wear out, even without that mechanical aspect. Over time materials oxidize and become brittle, and if they're thinner and cheaper or lower quality material, that will accelerate. Add to being jostled when things move and electricity passing through the parts all the time, there are actually a lot of failure points even in electronics.
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Post by soop on May 11, 2018 16:54:30 GMT
I mean.. I haven't heard of electronics "wearing out" per se. Fuses blow, capacitors fail, and sometimes chips fry from voltage spikes (more likely in a poorly designed circuit). But oxidisation and bad solder joints are unlikely in a professionally designed circuit.
Plus, if anything, NEC cheaped out on caps for a lot of PCE hardware. When you're manufacturing consumer electronics, saving 12 cents a capacitor can save you tens of thousands in the long run. When you're designing a niche product with no competition, you can pretty much charge what you want, and it makes less sense to scrimp on components.
Lastly, planned obsolesence os common in todays consumer electronics. That's why your washer dies. They pick a component, work out the average use, and make something that will fail at some point past warantee so you buy a new one. The dumb thing is, it's usually easy to fix if you can be bothered.
Cuisinart did it with their stand mixers, they all have plastic gears now that fail sooner or later, while the old metal geared ones are still chugging away.
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Post by Black_Tiger on May 11, 2018 17:47:15 GMT
Like I said, I don't have time to break down the actual series of events, but no one needs to open up and fix tgeir hardware. That fuse that can be flipped only pitentially benefits exclusive composite use through the SSS3 in the long run.
The RGB problems are inherent with random people using RGB in random ways and ignoring suggestions which should be fairly common sense in the first place.
It's taken me a decade to finally figure out a combination to get RGB out of a SMS and my Mark III. I don't blame Sega for the issues with my component transcoders and their 1985 hardware. Just the same, the minor image imperfections my SSS3 had using its RGB output turned out to be from my nicer transcoder, which itself may be affected from power supply issues.
People ignoring what those without problems are using and instead hook up a yellowed PCE with a dirty exp port to the SSS3, using retrovision cables and a $5 modern "Sega" power supply, often hooked directly to an hdtv... is a user problem.
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